Setting up instruments in score

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blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:45 pm

I'm trying to create a new score and set up the instruments to match a physical score that I want to input, and I'm having some trouble with the brass instruments. I am a string player so I'm not very familiar with some of the brass nuances so I could use a little help.

The physical score calls for a Clarinet in A, and that shows up as an available choice in Sibelius, so I think I'm good there. But then the score calls for a Horn in E and a Horn in C, and Sibelius only gives me the option of 'Horn in F', or 'Horn in F [no key]'. It also calls for a Trumpet in E, but my only choices there are 'Trumpet in C', or 'Trumpet in Bb'.

How do I setup these instruments properly for playback?


KJ_Palmer
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 am
Sibelius Version: 6.2, 7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by KJ_Palmer » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:18 pm

I've only a sketchy knowledge of this, but what you'd do is essentially create a new instrument, based on the nearest available instrument.

So, for example to set up Horn in E (with Sibelius 7.5):

In the Home ribbon, select the Edit Instruments button in the bottom right corner under Instruments
Find a suitable Ensemble, Family, Instrument, e.g. Orchestral, Brass, Horn in F and click New Instrument > Yes
Change all the F's to E's in the instrument names and Transposing score section, and adjust the range values if necessary > Ok

You should then be able to add the new instrument staff as usual in the Add or Remove instruments section
You'll probably want to have Transposing Score turned on so the clef is notated properly.
Sibelius 6.2, 7.5.1, Windows 11

blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:40 pm

Thanks for the reply.

I'm using version 5.1.0. What I had to do was create a dummy score, then I could add a new instrument. Then I closed that score and created a new score with the intent of using my new instrument, but it wasn't there. When I created another new score and went back to the create new instrument dialog, my new instrument is totally gone, so it didn't save it at all.

So I guess I'm not sure how to get it to save from one score to another. Seems like it's only on a per score basis. I can work with that, I can create my score then add in the instruments in question. But it would be nice to save them for future scores. If anyone has any advice how to get them to "stick" that would be great.

Otherwise, thanks for the heads up on creating the new instruments, I'm going to give it a full go here soon and test it out.

KJ_Palmer
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 am
Sibelius Version: 6.2, 7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by KJ_Palmer » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:55 am

I believe you would do this by exporting your setup as a House style. Then you can import the House style in new scores that need it without affecting scores that don't.

This article explains how:

http://www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/make- ... -sibelius/
Sibelius 6.2, 7.5.1, Windows 11

blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:23 pm

Ok so I found out how to create a new instrument. Problem is, it still sounds horrible so I'm still definitely missing something.

So when I go to create a new instrument, I actually see Horn in E [no key] as one of the instruments thats not in the "active" list, so I cant use it but I can add it to the "active" list and then I will be able to use it. Can I use this one, since its premade, or do I still need to create my own Horn in E instrument? I'm not sure what the difference is. Id be more inclined to use something premade since I dont really know what I'm doing when it comes to keys and transposing.

After I got everything set, I turned on Transposing score, and it adjusted all the notes on a few staves, including the Clarinet in A staff, which was already sounding perfect. But now the notes dont match the physical score, so Im thinking I should readjust them back to match?

Thanks for your patience and advice!

KJ_Palmer
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 am
Sibelius Version: 6.2, 7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by KJ_Palmer » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:11 am

Did you create your new instrument from Horn in F rather than Horn in F [no key]? I have Sibelius 6 rather than 5 but hopefully the options are similar.

I used House Style > Edit Instruments > Ensemble = Orchsetra > Family = Brass > Horn in F (right at the top NOT Horn in F [no key]), > New Instrument and edited the range to E etc. and OK.

Under Create Instruments > Instruments you should now get Horn in E in the same category as Horn in F (Orchestral > Brass) and be able to add it to your score. Do you have the full version Sibelius 5, otherwise this might be disabled.

You might want to turn Transposing Score off if you don't want to have your clarinet etc. renotated.
Sibelius 6.2, 7.5.1, Windows 11

bobp
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Post by bobp » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:58 pm

This sounds like a classical score. Some of those instruments are no longer used. Modern scores will have trumpets in Bb or C. If the player is using a piccolo trumpet, they will transpose the part themselves. Horn will be in F. Clarinet in Bb. If this is for play back, put the notes in that you have then transpose up or down as needed. You can create a new instrument, but why?
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:35 pm

Ok I'm still having issues. I've tried so many different things, but I think I am just missing something fundamental about transposing. I've attached a jpg of the first page of the piece I'm trying to input.

As far as the instruments, when I input notes the Bassoon, Trombone, and Bass Trombone/Tuba all sound perfect as-is. The Trumpet in E, and Horn in C sound perfect, if I use a [no key] instrument for them, and have Transposing Score turned ON. The Clarinet sounds perfect, but if I turn ON Transposing Score, then it's notated in a key with 5 flats, instead of the 3-flat key that's written in the score. I want to leave it notated the way it is in the score because I don't want to have to mentally transpose anything while inputting, there's a lot of notes I'm sure I'll make way too many mistakes that way. Finally, the Horns in E all seem to sound bad no matter what I do.

Basically in the end I just want to have my score setup so it matches the written score and I can input exactly what I see. I dont want to have to do any adjusting or transposing on the fly.

Thoughts?
Last edited by blkhwks19 on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobp
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:53 am

Post by bobp » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:23 pm

No attachment.
But again, is this for play back ( to have Sibelius make a recording) or to hand to real players?
Trombones, tuba and clarinet are all transposing instruments. I have no idea why some work and some don't. But i think you may be over-thinking all this.
You shouldn't have to create new instruments or anything of that type. You can call a part in the score anything you want. I.E. enter a trumpet part in any key and have Sibelius transpose it to any other key, along with entering the proper key signature afterwards.
Is the score you are working from actually transposed? Are the key signatures of the string parts different from the brass and clarinet parts?
You can enter parts as you see them and have Sibelius transpose them after.
Google is your friend. Look up proper transposition intervals.
Don't make it harder than it really is.
Even so, inputting an entire score int Sibelius is no easy task. Are you sure no one has done this already?
You can search by composer here http://imslp.org/
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:33 am

So I was going to answer all your questions and post the screenshot (as well as my Sibelius file), but EUREKA! I got it all working properly! :D

So I realized that by adding in the Horns, I had to turn Transposing Score on to get them to display properly, but this messed with the Clarinet staff. So in order to fix, I had to start over and create a new score, but this time set the Clarinet's key to no sharps/flats. Then when I turned on Transposing, it transposed into the correct key. The rest of the staffs that were not transposing I just manually set all their keys. And everything was super smooth from there!

Again, I knew this could be done, but I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong, and that ended up being setting the Clarinet key before hitting Transpose. Glad I finally figured it out, and much thanks for bearing with me and offering advice! :)

blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:58 pm

Ok one last question (actually a few small questions), now that I got past setting everything up.

A few bars in, the Clarinet staff is marked "in B" for a few bars. The key signature and everything else stays the same, so how do I handle that so it plays back correctly?

Also, for a small bit the Oboe staff is marked English Horn Solo. The pitches played back are correct, but I was wondering if there's a way to swap out the voice used for the playback instrument for just those few bars. Not critical, but would be nice.

Lastly, I've noticed a few times on the score it's written "a 2.". Everything works and plays back correctly, but I was curious if anyone knew what it meant?

blkhwks19
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:52 pm
Sibelius Version: 5

Post by blkhwks19 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:23 pm

Figured out my last 2 questions but I'm still stuck on the Clarinet issue.

Whats the recommendation here? Should I be creating a new instrument (in B, vs the default A instrument Ive been using), or should I be messing with the key signature?

Tried to attach my Sib file but I guess thats not allowed....

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