What non-standard things can Sibelius do?
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:18 am
Hallo.
I'm new here, and am considering whether to buy Sibelius, Finale, or possibly both. I wish to use it for composing my own music, mainly for piano. I normally compose within a late-romantic/impressionistic style, but occasionally use "modernisms" within that which require unconventional notation; so I need to know whether Sibelius can do these things before I buy it.
I would like to ask here about this, please. I will list some of the things I have in mind: I don't need to know how to do these things now (I can learn that in due course), but I just need to know if Sibelius can do them at all. With some of them, if it can't be done at all, it may mean that I need to choose Finale instead of Sibelius (because I'm pretty sure Finale can do many of them).
I will list them now, and I would appreciate anyone being able to tell me whether they can be done in Sibelius. I will number them to make them easier to refer to for anyone who wishes to tell me if they are possible or not.
In all cases, accurate notation is more important to me than accurate playback, but having both would be highly desirable, if possible.
Time signatures
1. Different time signatures on different staves within a system of piano music (bar-lines coincide, though, so that a crotchet, quaver, etc. has a different value in the different time signatures).
2. As the preceding, but with bar-lines staggered according to the different time signatures (a crotchet, quaver, etc. being the same in the different time signatures).
3. Two different time signatures within the *same* system of piano music, one stacked on top of the other, and applying to different voices within the staff. Because there would be 4 numerals instead of 2, they can extend above and below the staff and don't need to be shown half-size (and hard to read). (Not just my own idea - see Scriabin's 10th Piano Sonata for an example, about 2 or 3 pages before the end, for 3/8 and 9/16 both occurring in the left hand.)
4. Time signature changes inside a bar (e.g., occurs in the last movement of Beethoven's Sonata no. 31 in Ab major, Op. 110, where 12/16 changes to 6/8 mid-bar, and then vice-versa later on).
Key signatures, accidentals
5. Different key signatures on different staves within a system of piano music, where polytonal effects are required.
6. Non-standard key signatures (e.g., just C# or F# and Bb together).
7. Triple-sharps and triple-flats (examples occur in music by Alkan, Reger, and Roslavets).
8. Key signature changes inside a bar (very common in standard use - surely this must be possible).
Handling of bars
9. Opening or closing repeat signs in the middle of a bar.
10. Bar numbers that take account of repeats so that each bar number is actually correct for each bar as actually heard. (This would mean bars in a repeated section would carry two numbers.)
11. Splitting a bar (often but not always a spatially long one) over two systems, even when it would be quite feasible to have it on one.
Handling of notes
12. A longer note like a crotchet or minim near the end of the bar whose duration doesn't fit, but part of whose value is deemed to continue into the start of the next bar. In the next bar, there would just be a blank (no note or rest) at the start, for the exact value that carries over from the note in the previous bar. (This would at time be clearer than ties, especially in close textures, where the ties would just create additional clutter, but the unconventional notation is perfectly clear in meaning - I've seen it occasionally in music of the classical and early-romantic periods);
13. The ability to choose, in the same piece, between round breves and old-style square breves (I occasionally use them to mean different things - the former is a precise value equal to 8 crotchets, but the latter is sometimes useful to indicate a long sustained note of indefinite value).
14. Devising non-standard extensions of the "dot" system for increasing note values. In certain time signatures where textures can get intricate, this would be helpful to reduce clutter. I can think of two examples I have considered using occasionally: in 5-based time signatures (5/4, 10/16, etc.), a horizontal dash after a note could extend its value by a quarter instead of a half; and in 9-based time signatures like 9/8 or 18/8, a vertical dash after a dotted note could extend the value by half the *dotted* value of the note, instead of half its undotted value - which would enable a note lasting a full 9/8 bar, for example, to be written as a single note and without ties. Such things would preferably be done in a way that playback would interpret correctly, although I realize this may be asking a bit much.
Other
15. More than 4 voices or layers in a single staff, separately stemmed. (I know you can enter notes on a staff, then move them to another staff, which would enable one staff in piano music to have 5 voices if the other has no more than 3, by "borrowing" notes from the other staff - but I might also need another way of doing it, so that *both* staves could exceed 4 voices. This one's important, because the music I compose tends to have different layers in it that need separate stemming.)
16. In tuplets, not letting the tuplet numeral be placed on top of the square bracket, breaking it into two portions, but leaving the bracket complete and the numeral placed inside it.
17. Cadenza-like passages such as often found in Beethoven, in free time, observing no time signature at all (although they usually appear nominally within the prevailing time signature).
18. A whole piece (or very large section of a piece) written without any time signature and with no bar-lines, like Ives for example (except at the end or when a normal time signature resumes).
I know this is a long list; but please remember I am *not* asking now how you do any of these, but just needing to know if they can be done - so a list of "Yeses" or "Nos" attached to numbers would be very helpful to me now, and much appreciated (something like "1. Yes 2. No 3. Yes" - etc.).
Thank you.
Regards,
Michael.
I'm new here, and am considering whether to buy Sibelius, Finale, or possibly both. I wish to use it for composing my own music, mainly for piano. I normally compose within a late-romantic/impressionistic style, but occasionally use "modernisms" within that which require unconventional notation; so I need to know whether Sibelius can do these things before I buy it.
I would like to ask here about this, please. I will list some of the things I have in mind: I don't need to know how to do these things now (I can learn that in due course), but I just need to know if Sibelius can do them at all. With some of them, if it can't be done at all, it may mean that I need to choose Finale instead of Sibelius (because I'm pretty sure Finale can do many of them).
I will list them now, and I would appreciate anyone being able to tell me whether they can be done in Sibelius. I will number them to make them easier to refer to for anyone who wishes to tell me if they are possible or not.
In all cases, accurate notation is more important to me than accurate playback, but having both would be highly desirable, if possible.
Time signatures
1. Different time signatures on different staves within a system of piano music (bar-lines coincide, though, so that a crotchet, quaver, etc. has a different value in the different time signatures).
2. As the preceding, but with bar-lines staggered according to the different time signatures (a crotchet, quaver, etc. being the same in the different time signatures).
3. Two different time signatures within the *same* system of piano music, one stacked on top of the other, and applying to different voices within the staff. Because there would be 4 numerals instead of 2, they can extend above and below the staff and don't need to be shown half-size (and hard to read). (Not just my own idea - see Scriabin's 10th Piano Sonata for an example, about 2 or 3 pages before the end, for 3/8 and 9/16 both occurring in the left hand.)
4. Time signature changes inside a bar (e.g., occurs in the last movement of Beethoven's Sonata no. 31 in Ab major, Op. 110, where 12/16 changes to 6/8 mid-bar, and then vice-versa later on).
Key signatures, accidentals
5. Different key signatures on different staves within a system of piano music, where polytonal effects are required.
6. Non-standard key signatures (e.g., just C# or F# and Bb together).
7. Triple-sharps and triple-flats (examples occur in music by Alkan, Reger, and Roslavets).
8. Key signature changes inside a bar (very common in standard use - surely this must be possible).
Handling of bars
9. Opening or closing repeat signs in the middle of a bar.
10. Bar numbers that take account of repeats so that each bar number is actually correct for each bar as actually heard. (This would mean bars in a repeated section would carry two numbers.)
11. Splitting a bar (often but not always a spatially long one) over two systems, even when it would be quite feasible to have it on one.
Handling of notes
12. A longer note like a crotchet or minim near the end of the bar whose duration doesn't fit, but part of whose value is deemed to continue into the start of the next bar. In the next bar, there would just be a blank (no note or rest) at the start, for the exact value that carries over from the note in the previous bar. (This would at time be clearer than ties, especially in close textures, where the ties would just create additional clutter, but the unconventional notation is perfectly clear in meaning - I've seen it occasionally in music of the classical and early-romantic periods);
13. The ability to choose, in the same piece, between round breves and old-style square breves (I occasionally use them to mean different things - the former is a precise value equal to 8 crotchets, but the latter is sometimes useful to indicate a long sustained note of indefinite value).
14. Devising non-standard extensions of the "dot" system for increasing note values. In certain time signatures where textures can get intricate, this would be helpful to reduce clutter. I can think of two examples I have considered using occasionally: in 5-based time signatures (5/4, 10/16, etc.), a horizontal dash after a note could extend its value by a quarter instead of a half; and in 9-based time signatures like 9/8 or 18/8, a vertical dash after a dotted note could extend the value by half the *dotted* value of the note, instead of half its undotted value - which would enable a note lasting a full 9/8 bar, for example, to be written as a single note and without ties. Such things would preferably be done in a way that playback would interpret correctly, although I realize this may be asking a bit much.
Other
15. More than 4 voices or layers in a single staff, separately stemmed. (I know you can enter notes on a staff, then move them to another staff, which would enable one staff in piano music to have 5 voices if the other has no more than 3, by "borrowing" notes from the other staff - but I might also need another way of doing it, so that *both* staves could exceed 4 voices. This one's important, because the music I compose tends to have different layers in it that need separate stemming.)
16. In tuplets, not letting the tuplet numeral be placed on top of the square bracket, breaking it into two portions, but leaving the bracket complete and the numeral placed inside it.
17. Cadenza-like passages such as often found in Beethoven, in free time, observing no time signature at all (although they usually appear nominally within the prevailing time signature).
18. A whole piece (or very large section of a piece) written without any time signature and with no bar-lines, like Ives for example (except at the end or when a normal time signature resumes).
I know this is a long list; but please remember I am *not* asking now how you do any of these, but just needing to know if they can be done - so a list of "Yeses" or "Nos" attached to numbers would be very helpful to me now, and much appreciated (something like "1. Yes 2. No 3. Yes" - etc.).
Thank you.
Regards,
Michael.