Space bars evenly?

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appreciatethehelp
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:58 am

Hey guys.
So, you know how Sibelius automatically changes the size of a bar based on it's contents?
Well I'm wondering if I can somehow "override" that, so that each bar in a system is the same length (physically, not in terms of time signature).

Here is an example document:
%22Even bar spacing%22 example.png
%22Even bar spacing%22 example.png (173.99 KiB) Viewed 11453 times

In this document I want the vertical bar lines to run parallel to each other in every system, meaning each bar would have to be the same size.

Thanks for your time.
Last edited by appreciatethehelp on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.


andyg
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Post by andyg » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:33 pm

Fill every bar with semiquavers and hide them.

appreciatethehelp
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:53 am

andyg wrote:Fill every bar with semiquavers and hide them.
That's a bit laborious; I am planning on composing many, many more scores requiring equally spaced bars…. any other suggestions?
Perhaps a plug in of some kind…?

andyg
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Post by andyg » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:36 am

Hardly labourious if thought about!

Open a blank score, insert desired time signature. Select semiquaver and input a note in, say, Voice 4. Hit R until you fill the bar. Select the bar and hit R until you fill the page/score. If you want a set number of bars per system, set it. Now hide the semiquavers. Save as a Manuscript Paper. Do the same for various time signatures and save again as Manuscript Paper.

Took me less than a minute to do one.

You'll have templates ready and waiting.

I'm not aware of any plug ins that can give you evenly spaced bars. It's usually regarded as 'bad practice' in anything other than exercises etc, so Sibelius doesn't like it!

appreciatethehelp
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:12 am

Yeah you're probably right; it isn't too much extra work really.

I just thought there might be a way to permanently adjust the settings, but saving then using a specified manuscript paper is pretty much just as good.

Cheers Andy!

appreciatethehelp
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:31 pm

Well I tried your suggestion but it didn't work, the attached image will illustrate why:
Screen Shot 2017-09-21 at 2.16.09 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2017-09-21 at 2.16.09 AM.jpg (189.91 KiB) Viewed 11388 times

andyg
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Post by andyg » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:20 pm

The technique usually works, but in your examples I think you may have too many bars per line for it to take effect here. When you start adding dotted rhythms, there's not enough space for Sibelius to produce what you want.

Sibelius is designed to flow the music sensibly, following its algorithms for doing so. When you try to make it do something that isn't usual, it can rebel.

You could try reducing the staff size to allow a bit more room. Other than that, I'm not sure there's much that can be done other than dragging barlines around and that's labourious and beset with pitfalls.

appreciatethehelp
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:49 am

I am hesitant to reduce the staff size as I want the music to be easily readable by my students.

At least I know what my options are- thanks for the input Andy!

bobp
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Post by bobp » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:39 pm

Just a thought, if I may. I totally understand the desire to have all the measures be the same size. All nice and neat. But in the real world, the music these students will be reading will not always have measures the same size, if at all. Is it worth trying to set this up? They may or may not even realize the difference. There are lots of other things to focus on while working with students.
Just a thought.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

appreciatethehelp
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:41 am

I totally understand where you're coming from, Bob.

I would probably only space the bars evenly on exercise materials, not on transcribed or composed music, for (as Andy pointed out earlier) Sibelius does a great job of spacing the bars automatically for optimal readability.

Many of the books containing exercises that I have learned/teach out of space everything evenly, regardless of the subdivision used. As you said, it is merely a matter of "neatness".
So I suppose I am simply trying to emulate materials that I consider exemplary.

I cannot help but wonder how those who engrave these materials managed to achieve even spacing- perhaps they use different software...

Figuring out whether I can do these sorts of what many may consider trifling adjustments on Sibelius is also an exercise for me to figure out where the boundaries lie in terms of score customization.

I definitely agree that the students will likely hardly notice the difference, and perhaps some people may consider my experimentation in these trivial areas a bit of a waste of time that could be better spent.

However I have amassed a veritable stockpile of scores that I have written over the last few years and would like to open a website to sell them soon, providing a little passive income to support my meagre earnings.
As such, the more I understand about the limits/abilities of Sibelius, the better.

I guess what I am trying to say is that my motives for experimenting with Sibelius and it's functionality/customizability lie somewhat outside of the teaching world.

Thank you for your perspective though, it is always good to have input from multiple sources, which is one of the reasons why forums such as this one are so valuable.

Cheers.

bobp
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Post by bobp » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:26 am

You might check out Musescore. Check their help file and forum. Musescore might be more forgiving. As well as being free. I kind of doubt that folks that prepare the types of material you are trying to emulate, used anything like Sibelius. Music setting software has been around for awhile, but not Sibelius.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

appreciatethehelp
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:38 am
Sibelius Version: 6.1.0
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Post by appreciatethehelp » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:24 am

bobp wrote:You might check out Musescore. Check their help file and forum. Musescore might be more forgiving. As well as being free. I kind of doubt that folks that prepare the types of material you are trying to emulate, used anything like Sibelius. Music setting software has been around for awhile, but not Sibelius.
Cheers, I will check it out.
Yeah that's a good point regarding Sibelius and it's short history; a lot of the scores I am trying to emulate are from the 80's, 90's and earlier.
I might approach some music companies with a longer history such as Hal Leonard and see if I can get a recommendation on some good software.

Thanks once again.

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