Audio Export Problem...

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MikeLyons
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by MikeLyons » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:03 pm

I have to say, I couldn't disagree more with BobP's assertion about NP. I write chamber music and orchestral music as well as British Brass Band music. I also do many arrangements of classical music and I have never had any issue with NP playing it 'jazzy' - unless you count the time I forgot to turn off Sibelius' Rubato feature when it went somewhat 'weird'. I think for NP to work well you have to turn off Sib's interpretation features (including 'Live playback') because they get in each others' ways!

There are many things that can affect playback, chief among them being memory (RAM), disc speed, how many pther programs (and which types of programs) you are running in the backlground, the quality and type of sound card you are using (most onboard chips couldn't run a bath, let alone a realistic sounding performance) and the quality of your sound library, what type of driver your soundcard is using (ASIO,WASAPI, DS, MME) and so on.

As to using the mixer to change sounds, it's really not a good idea to do that regularly. Not because it's a bad thing to do in itself, but it can cause problems if you change the sound and then change your library - which may not have the same sounds (as just one example). If you use the mixer, use it to find out the program number and place a program change (~Px,y) in technique text on the staff or set the desired sound in the Preferred Sounds dialog of the playback devices setup. The manual has plenty of information about program changes. Not only that, but they can be changed 'on-the-fly'. Try doing that in the mixer.

In this particular instance, re-installing, even from a clean install, will likely make no difference.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2019.9, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD Note Performer 3, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

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bobp
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Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by bobp » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:43 am

Hey, Mike. I'm not disagreeing with you. Just presenting a different perspective.
I have no problem with NP as such. I have heard some good things from it. I just have no compelling reason to buy it. Just like I have no compelling reason to buy a Mac. I do not mean to dissuade others from using it (or a Mac). When I wrote the post above (in mid 2017, I think), you could go to the NP site and listen to their example of the trumpet concerto. The trumpet patch was definitely a jazz type sound. This was not a missed setting or mistake. This was their choice. No trumpet player would play this piece that way. If you go to the site today, they've changed it to a much more subdued sound. Rather dull, to me, now. There is also a rather strange string sound in the opening of the 1812.

And yes, there is a long list of settings you have to change to get the most out of NP.

As to changing sounds in the mixer. I do it every time I start a new piece. Why? I don't have any templates set up. Maybe I should. I seldom use the same instrumentation twice. So I set up a score based on what I think I'll need. Sibelius loads the sounds. But, my only choice for 1st violin is the default 1st violin sound. I seldom use that and prefer one of the other sounds loadable only, AFAIK, from the mixer. Same with many other sounds. I don't use any other libraries so I have no idea about how my choice would effect them. I often use instrumentation not always found in NP.

NP says that it plays the music in a more natural way, or more musical, or something. I'm not sure I ever heard whatever that means in all the examples I've heard. People have run my music through NP. I can say it was different, but I can't say it was better. And that's OK because out in the real world, if someone were to perform my music, it would most certainly be different. I get it. I enjoy making all the little adjustments in Sibelius. Which reminds me, accel and rit are most definitely not broken in Sib 7.5 in the inspector. It's not very intuitive as to how to adjust them, but it works. I have no idea about later versions.

Things that affect playback. My Sibelius computer of choice is my i5 desktop. 16 gb ram , Sib and sounds on an SSD. To me SSD is the only way to go. Nothing else running and background services held to a minimum. It doesn't matter if I use the addon ASIO sound card or the onboard sound card. Playback still stumbles once in a great while. I can hear no difference in the resulting sound file. I have never heard any difference using the meccanico type settings. 4gb of ram is not good.

All this is to say that I am not a professional composer/arranger. For someone such as yourself, speed and ease are paramount. I understand. I compose for the fun of it. It's therapy. I was a music major in college, by the way. A trumpet player, as well as guitar. I have played a wide variety of music in a wide variety of groups from pit bands to large orchestras. I know a lot about how instrument sounds fit together. But then, everyone has their own idea of what sounds good. You know much more about the workings of Sib. than I do. We approach the same thing from different directions.

The day 7.5 no longer works on my computer will be a sad day indeed. I can't really justify a subscription to 8. I'm not convinced that Dorico is the answer. Yet, anyway.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

MikeLyons
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:06 am

Hi Bob,
We're old friends now! We're both entitled to our opinions and our experiences will be different. My machine was the best I could afford at the time an i7 (first gen) and I can tell it's getting old now (10 years or thereabouts) so I've had my money's worth out of it. We old people like to do that! :-D I don't know what I will do when it finally kicks the bucket. Maybe go back to pencil and paper!

Dorico is still in its infancy, missing a lot of grown-up features, but they are arriving at pace. Just wish I could afford it.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2019.9, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD Note Performer 3, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

bobp
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by bobp » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:24 am

Mike,
Dang, always wanted an i7. Now their on i9's. My desktop and laptop are on i5s.
My laptop has been sputtering for a few months now. Hard drive shot. Wouldn't boot any more. All my usual software to boot to bad drives wouldn't work.
But, and this amazed me, using the command prompt, I could open Notepad, find and transfer several hundred GBs of files to a flash drive fast and easy.
I had Sibelius on the laptop and somehow had the wherewithal to deactivate it before the thing died. I blew my computer budget for the year on a new SSD, and just today got it up and running. Sibelius is back on it. Life is good, well, till the next disaster.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

msdickerson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm
Sibelius Version: 9.7
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by msdickerson » Tue May 14, 2019 8:07 pm

I just started getting the export problem and it was after I have exported dozens of audio files using 8.1.1.6. What was different was that just a day ago, I started using the graphic capture on my scores to integrate the images of the score with a previously built audio file using a different editor. Well I would have to say this is a bug in Sibelius 8.+ and has to do with probably registry corruption after graphics copy using the graphics button during score editing. I might try to go into the registry to see if there are any possible culprits (I am a retired software engineer plus musician). I might try to clean or fix registry problems if found. But for now I am trying to reinstall 8.1.1.6. Not yet sure if that will fix it.

msdickerson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm
Sibelius Version: 9.7
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by msdickerson » Tue May 14, 2019 8:16 pm

The re-installation fixed the audio export. I did notice when the problem happened, I suddenly started getting during export, sibelius actually playing the music, rather than just exporting it. So if I get the problem again where sib actually plays during an export I will know I have had something corrupted again and will need to reinstall again. I used the repair option of the installation, and even though it was lengthy amount of time to do it, it did work. Hope this helps folks.

msdickerson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm
Sibelius Version: 9.7
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by msdickerson » Wed May 15, 2019 4:48 pm

:(
Well after installation I used the video export facility for a score of mine, and next day when trying to export some audio parts for recording purposes, this same problem occurred again. Thinking about it, the functions used for the graphic copy of pages of a score is probably the same function for video export , simply automated to redo itself with metronome followers in it. So I am reinstalling again to prove or disprove this theory. If I prove it, the Avid / Sibelius needs to fix this issue before anyone should buy another copy of "Ultimate".

msdickerson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm
Sibelius Version: 9.7
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...possible workaround

Post by msdickerson » Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 pm

OKAY - possible work around until Avid gets off their butts and fixes the Sibelius 8.X Graphics copy button corruption issue (which somehow corrupts something in the registry for the avid entries causing video and audio exports to fail.
in regedit after a clean sibelius install which audio and video exports work and are tested to work.
1) export these entries:
Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Avid
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Avid

save the exported registry files for access in the event of the bug happening.

When the bug happens, shut down sibelius, then go into regedit and import these 2 .reg files.

That should restore whatever Sibelius messed up back to the initial settings which then will again work.

Anyone with a current support agreement should forward this to Avid tech support telling them that the graphics copy/cut button function somehow messes up the audio and video export functionality when used in all 8.X versions.

bobp
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by bobp » Fri May 17, 2019 3:02 am

You might be right. But...

I'm a bit surprised to hear a former software engineer talk about a possible glitch that affects all versions of something. Especially considering how many different systems that software is trying to work on. As well as a single fix taking care of all of it.

But then, I've never used copy/cut, ever. Don't even know what it does.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

msdickerson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm
Sibelius Version: 9.7
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by msdickerson » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:44 pm

I have had a multiple hour Sibelius debug session with one of Sibelius techs take control over my PC remotely and do a clean reinstall including deleting absolutely all registry entries and folders associated with Sibelius. After hours we again were able to reproduce the video export issue. When you export your score with video and audio, in Windows 10, subsequent exports will fail. Reloading the registry can temporarily fix the problem but after using video / audio export the problem will reoccur. They have suggested redundant solutions so far which have proven that they do not know what the real problem is. So far to my knowledge, no real programmer or engineer has looked into this problem, only tech support/customer support. As for a glitch that maintains itself for multiple versions, assuming they are writing in C++ or a similar object oriented language, I can EASILY see a CLASS which has a bug being maintained through many versions. The CLASS's are created with intent to save time and work by programmers rewriting the same stuff over and over again. It is standard procedure in programming for the last 20 years plus. So I paid for the most recent version hoping to resolve one issue and so far it has not resolved the issue. I upgraded from version 8 to version 9.7.xxxx. We did notice in version 9.1.xxxx that the problem did not seem to occur often, so if you are using video export and want a moderately stable version, use 9.1.xxxx Sibelius. I am today testing another redundant test by reinstalling 9.7 and then deleting registry and folder entries assuming these have gotten corrupt. I doubt it will work, and assuming it also fails, I will again back down to version 9.1 of Sibelius so I can actually compose music again and not solve their software bugs on my dollar and time.

msdickerson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm
Sibelius Version: 9.7
Operating System: Windows

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by msdickerson » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:24 pm

The following procedure corrects the corruption which causes audio and video export problems.

WINDOWS:

- exit Sibelius
- click Start menu (for Windows 8, press window key then type Run, select Run)
- on search bar, type %appdata%
- click "Roaming" folder or press Enter
- inside the Roaming folder, go to Avid > Sibelius (and/or Sibelius 7.5 if there's any)

- delete the "Playback Configurations" folder, "PlogueEngine" folder, and the PlaybackConfig.xml file

- click Start menu (for Windows 8, press window key then type Run, select Run)
- on search bar, type regedit
- delete the Preferences folder in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Avid\Sibelius

I am now waiting for the fix in a new version of Sibelius to correct the initial corruption.

bobp
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Audio Export Problem...

Post by bobp » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:20 pm

That procedure has been known since 7.5. Sibelius hasn't changed a lot since then. I haven't had to use it since using W10. I doubt that Avid is going to do much in the way of fixing anything.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop

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