Creating a Template

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2ndClarinet
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Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Sat May 01, 2021 4:49 pm

I am in the process of taking some old clarinet arrangements and transferring them to Sibelius. I would like to set up a template that will allow me to create a template that I can open for each new piece. This should then be able to play along to my Bb clarinet in the correct key. Is there anything I need to do before I start - does Sibelius playback in Concert pitch C?

Re: Creating a Template

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MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Sun May 02, 2021 5:43 am

The transposition of your clarinet part has nothing to do with playback. If you enter your notes from your Bb clarinet part(s) with the transposing score button active you will get the same pitch that you would if a clarinettist played from the paper page.

Unless you want to set up a particular layout, for the task you have outlined (transcribing clarinet music from paper) you don't need to set up a template as such. You could simply create a 'blank' score, change the instrument to clarinet in Bb then off you go.
create new from blank.jpg
create new from blank.jpg (96.73 KiB) Viewed 155 times
If you think that's too much hassle every time, you could save the file as a manuscript paper and open that every time you are transcribing a new piece. You'll still have to set the key/TS, title/composer etc.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Sun May 02, 2021 8:37 am

Thank you Mike for coming to my aid, that's a relatively simple response.

May I ask....

1. I started inputting notes exactly as they are on my paper copy and it is very easy to follow. However, when I get to the end of a line, is it possible to lock the positions of the notes so they don't roll over into the next line.

2. Should I specify the number of bars per line before I begin or just move them manually?

Thanks
Tony

MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Sun May 02, 2021 9:45 am

1. Why do you need to do this? Do you want to produce an EXACT copy of the original? If so, you will probably need to adjust the staff size slightly to make it fit the right number of bars on a line. I would avoid using the auto breaks/bars per system - you will struggle to get the staves to match. You should also consider what the page and staff margins are set to. IMHO, if you want it to be an EXACT copy, you would be better off starting from a PhotoScore scan.

If I were doing this, I would just enter all of the music without worrying about the layout. Once the music is in that is the time to worry about the layout.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Sun May 02, 2021 10:04 am

Point taken, I'll start as you suggest and see how things go with the first.

How accurate are scans into Photoscore?

Ps. I pressed on 'Transpose' button and I get a window of options. What do I select here so that my score plays back in the same key as my Bb clarinet?

MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Sun May 02, 2021 2:28 pm

No. When you press the Transposing Score button on the Home tab it changes the display between showing the transposition of instruments like the clarinet and concert pitch. Your comment makes me think you are looking at Note Input-->Transpose! Leave this alone.

Did you start the score with a clarinet in Bb instrument? If so, and you have been looking at the Transposing score the notes should be exactly the same pitches as the part you are reading from.

Look at the picture.
transposiing score.jpg
transposiing score.jpg (102.93 KiB) Viewed 129 times
On the left is the clarinet score in concert pitch as it would appear when created in Sibelius. (Sib automatically creates a SCORE) If you haven't already changed them from the default then the music will look like this. It is in concert pitch (F).

The picture on the right is from the actual clarinet part. Select any bar on the score and press 'w' on the keyboard. In my example, the key shown is G. This is the music I would give to the clarinet player. All the work oif transposition has been done. (Note that the pitches are now 1 full tone higher).

This is part of the difference in Sibelius between a score and a part.

For a single instrumental part (or a group of the same instruments) which you are transcribing, you should do this while vieweing the part. It makes life so much easier.

Sibelius' parts are dynamic . Changes you make in the score are updated in the part automatically. Anything except layout changes made in the part are automatically reflected in the score.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Sun May 02, 2021 5:16 pm

Mike, once again, thank you.
Forgive me if I sound stupid.... so if I want to replicate the paper copy, all I need to is.

1. Open a new document
2. Select my instrument (Bb clarinet)
3. Hit the Transpose button
4. Set my Key Signature and time signature and off I go.... ?

MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Sun May 02, 2021 8:04 pm

I would:

1. Create a new file, choosing Bb clarinet as the instrument and setting the key and TS in the create dialog (and title etc). When you click Create, you may be presented with a transposed score or you may not. So...
2. Check to see if this button is lit up or not.
transposiing score button off.png
transposiing score button off.png (27.86 KiB) Viewed 114 times
transposiing score button on.png
transposiing score button on.png (24.07 KiB) Viewed 114 times

If it is pressed you can start entering notes exactly as on the paper copy.

You need to get your head round the differences between a score and a part. I suggest reading the manual - at the very least chapters 2, 7 and 9.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Mon May 03, 2021 10:12 am

Mike, my brain has been 'thinking' the process through in my dreams.......

I have opened a 1st clarinet arrangement in Sibelius for 'Amazing Grace' that I transcribed from a paper copy last week. I opened it in Sibelius and changed the Key Signature to Eb. I then switched on transpose and this brought the arrangement up a step from the opening note which is C to a D. If I go to Note Input-->Transpose, how do I get all notes to go down a step from D - C.

Example shown
Attachments
Screen Shot 2021-05-03 at 11.06.08.png
Screen Shot 2021-05-03 at 11.06.08.png (195.33 KiB) Viewed 99 times

MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Mon May 03, 2021 10:37 am

That's because you initially entered the notes from the Bb clarinet part into a non-transposing score. Note the top left where it shows Full Score in grey?

So: Select all the music ([Ctrl]a)
The whole of the music should have a purple box selection
Go to the Note Input tab and choose Transpose
From the dialog choose Transpose by interval and set the options to a Major 2nd down (see image)
transpose by maj 2nd.png
transpose by maj 2nd.png (111.99 KiB) Viewed 94 times
Make sure you choose the exact same options as in my screenshot.

View the part: Select a bar and press w. Your screenshot shows the score.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Mon May 03, 2021 11:10 am

Mike, that worked, no problem.

So am I correct in saying that the original score is in Eb and the Clarinet parts Bb.
Now that I have done this, I presume I can go to all my 2nd clarinet parts that I transcribed months again and 'fix' them in this same fashion as they were done in a non-transposing score too.

MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Mon May 03, 2021 7:42 pm

Quick theory lesson:

Instruments like the clarinet, trumpet and horn are called transposing instruments because the notes they read on the page are not the notes they play!

When a Bb instrument plays a written C, the sound that comes out is actually a Bb. To compensate for this, their part is written a tone higher than it sounds. For brass instruments there are other, historical, considerations that I don't want to go into here. Eb instruments do the same, but their parts are either a minor 3rd or a major 6th different. (So a written C produces an A ).

When a conductor sees a score, his score can either be written with all of the instrument parts written at the same pitch and key sign as on the separate parts. This is called a Transposing score because all the transposing instruments are written at the same pitch as the parts. This makes it easy for the conductor to say, for example, "Your f# in bar 20 is a bit flat" without confusing the 2nd trumpet player!

If the score shows all of the parts in the same key (and with bass parts in bass clef (usually) ) this is a non-transposing or 'Concert pitch' score. Concert pitch is the pitch of instruments like flute/violin/piano and - in an orchestra or windband - trombones and tubas. When they see a C, they play a C.

In Sib, scores tend to default to concert pitch, unless they are using specific templates from Quick Start, and if you create a score from scratch, eg for your clainet parts, that is what you will get.

Scores in Sib have different settings to parts. As you are creating parts, you really should do the note input while viewing the part as most things are already set up to make things easier - for example the transposition and many of the layout settings. If you use the score layout you will have to keep changing settings to get it to look right. The part layout has better choices.

Quick way to sort the 2nd part of your question: Add another instrument (clarinet in Bb) to your score. Triple click the staff you've already notated. Copy the notes etc ([ctrl]c) and paste into the first bar on the new staff. Delete the old staff.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Tue May 04, 2021 9:41 am

Mike, once again, this is a very intuitive reply with lots to learn. The main reason I embarked upon this project was firstly, to help with my ability to read music notation better and secondly to play along to a collection of 2nd clarinet parts using Sibelius.

I discovered, the hard way, that although I had nice crisp printed music sheets, I couldn't play along as the pitch was different.

Now that I know how to do it correctly, I may just embark on transcribing the 1st clarinet parts from my 'over-copied' prints.

Without band practice and play in lockdown, it was a good pastime. Thank you.

MikeLyons
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Re: Creating a Template

Post by MikeLyons » Tue May 04, 2021 10:18 am

You are very welcome. I'm missing band practices too. I play in and help train two brass bands and I've gone from three reheals plus jobs a week to absolutely nothing.

Good luck and don't hesitate to ask if you need any more help.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2021.2, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

2ndClarinet
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2021 4:46 pm
Sibelius Version: 7.5
Operating System: Mac

Re: Creating a Template

Post by 2ndClarinet » Tue May 04, 2021 10:25 am

I joined our local brass and reed band May 2019 and after weekly lessons we were handed a Christmas selection to get ready for Christmas morning in our local churches. Although, I had some piano lessons in the past, my reading just wasn't as good as I thought. I took private lessons from our Euphonium player and he really helped. After Christmas, I was asked to join the band. We played several concerts and to be honest, I found it really daunting to stay with the pace of the band. I practiced every day for months and still do and now I am familiar with most of the repertoire.

Sibelius, really does help your understanding so if you can bear with the questions, you are shaping my band play also!

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