Please help very stumped

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Rink
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by Rink » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:02 pm

OS Windows XP

I am trying to create a page of equidistant empty bars, four to each line and eight lines to each page (32 bars in total). In addition to this there will be a repeat bar line ever two bars, creating in essence sixteen two bar phrases. Make sense? The problem is despite looking through the documentation, I cannot find a way to make all the bar equidistant to one another. I must be doing something wrong? I can't rely in on eyesight because it must be of a high degree of accuracy.

Help will be ultra appreciated!

Thanks


Zapruder
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:39 am

Post by Zapruder » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:44 pm

In order to answer your question in detail, I need more information: what is the purpose of this sheet, what paper size, are clefs included, are time signatures included, what staff size do you want, etc ... . All these things do influence the final result.

But I can get you started and I think you will be able to achieve a workable sheet.

- Create the score and -if needed- import your House Style
- Save the score under a clear name (So you will be able to return to it after having used the next Plug-in)
- Go to Plug-ins > Other > Make Layout Uniform
- When you get the "Cannot Undo" message, click "Yes".
- In the "Make Layout Uniform" dialogue, choose 4 bars per system, 8 systems per page and 8 systems on first page (if you don't use titles or any other text).
- Lock Format is selected by default and you can leave it that way.
- Click "OK"
- Now, the staves and bars should be spread out evenly over the page.
- Save this score under a new name (so your initial score is not overwritten)

You can now empty all bars:
- Select all Ctrl+A
- Properties Window > Bars, select the empty bars

Now, you can create the Start Repeat and End Repeat barlines.
Note that creating Start Repeat barlines at the beginning of a system can be a little tricky: sometimes they end up at the end of the previous system. With a little trial and error, you'll get the result you want.

Let me know if all this makes any sense to you.
Also, if you want more info or things do not look the way you want, come back here and try to describe the problem(s) as detailed as possible.


Zap
# I am NOT a "Professional Sibelius Trainer"
# Please state the Chapter(s) of the Sibelius User Guide you already searched in order to solve your problem.
# Remember that this is not an official Sibelius website.

Rink
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by Rink » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:51 pm

...

Rink
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by Rink » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:11 pm

Thank you for the response Zap!

I've tried what you said and to some degree it has worked. I now have equal size bars, 4 per system, 8 systems per page, 8 systems on first page. I also have the repeat bars in all the correct places.
Zapruder wrote:In order to answer your question in detail, I need more information: what is the purpose of this sheetZap
To create drum parts for a book. It will only include snare and bass drum parts which will be in the same voice.
Zapruder wrote:what paper size
width 8.5" height 11"
Zapruder wrote:are clefs included
No
Zapruder wrote:are time signatures included
Yes, One 4/4 TS on the top line, first bar.
Zapruder wrote:what staff size do you want, etc ...
I'm not sure yet, I will have to print them to be able to tell.

Zapruder wrote:- Create the score and -if needed- import your House Style
- Save the score under a clear name (So you will be able to return to it after having used the next Plug-in)
- Go to Plug-ins > Other > Make Layout Uniform
- When you get the "Cannot Undo" message, click "Yes".
- In the "Make Layout Uniform" dialogue, choose 4 bars per system, 8 systems per page and 8 systems on first page (if you don't use titles or any other text).
- Lock Format is selected by default and you can leave it that way.
- Click "OK"
- Now, the staves and bars should be spread out evenly over the page.
- Save this score under a new name (so your initial score is not overwritten)

You can now empty all bars:
- Select all Ctrl+A
- Properties Window > Bars, select the empty bars

Now, you can create the Start Repeat and End Repeat barlines.
Note that creating Start Repeat barlines at the beginning of a system can be a little tricky: sometimes they end up at the end of the previous system. With a little trial and error, you'll get the result you want.
Ok after doing this it all worked fine until I started to input information. Then the bar sizes all changed and everything was a different size.

What I want to happen is for the program to allow me to input information without altering the bar positions. I have feeling though that if I can achieve this the program may cram together certain rhythmical patterns in an awkward way.

Thank you so much for the help it is really needed at the moment.

Zapruder
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:39 am

Post by Zapruder » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:02 pm

In your initial message, you wrote: "I am trying to create a page of equidistant empty bars, ...". So, I was under the impression that you wanted to keep all bars empty (maybe to use this empty sheet for notation with a pencil).
Now I understand that you want to create music in these bars. Creating music will always change the size of the bars, no matter what you do. This has to do with note spacing etc. I see what you want to achieve and it surely would "look good". Unfortunately, different rhythmical figures will result in different sized bars.
I'm afraid I'm not able to help you on this one. On the other hand, why is this "balanced look" so important to you? Note spacing is a part of overall "music notation", only ignored in handwritten books like "The Real Book" and other jazz edtions. Maybe you can explain the necessity of the "balanced look"?

I also noticed you don't use clefs, although you write for specific (percussion) instruments. Why not use the percussion clef (on each staff!)?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Zap
# I am NOT a "Professional Sibelius Trainer"
# Please state the Chapter(s) of the Sibelius User Guide you already searched in order to solve your problem.
# Remember that this is not an official Sibelius website.

Rink
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by Rink » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:04 pm

Zapruder wrote:In your initial message, you wrote: "I am trying to create a page of equidistant empty bars, ...". So, I was under the impression that you wanted to keep all bars empty (maybe to use this empty sheet for notation with a pencil).
Sorry that was a miscommunication on my part.

Zapruder wrote:Now I understand that you want to create music in these bars. Creating music will always change the size of the bars, no matter what you do. This has to do with note spacing etc. I see what you want to achieve and it surely would "look good". Unfortunately, different rhythmical figures will result in different sized bars.
I'm afraid I'm not able to help you on this one. On the other hand, why is this "balanced look" so important to you? Note spacing is a part of overall "music notation", only ignored in handwritten books like "The Real Book" and other jazz edtions. Maybe you can explain the necessity of the "balanced look"?).
The balanced look has simply become the standard for drum kit notation. Any book on drum kit notation will have this look and seeing as I am aiming my book for this market I have to conform to the look. I am very saddened to hear that this is not possible with Sibelius. I think they may have overlooked something quite important. I will have to find out what the industry standard is for drummers.
Zapruder wrote:I also noticed you don't use clefs, although you write for specific (percussion) instruments. Why not use the percussion clef (on each staff!)?)
I do, I just wanted to start from a simple point.

Thank you very much for your help Zap your posts are very clear and helpful.

Zapruder
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:39 am

Post by Zapruder » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

I am aware of the fact that in drum method books that balanced look is quite standard. The problem is that drummers (pop, jazz, ...) almost never follow the standard notations but have constructed their own. Indeed, there is even a big difference between American and European drum notation.
Even the placing of the different instruments on the staff differs from book to book. So, it's quite tricky to talk about "the industries standard". But I do get your point and I also can see the benefits of that balanced look.

Just give me some more time. I'll think this one over and maybe I'm able to come up with a better solution (but I can't guarantee it ...)

Zap
# I am NOT a "Professional Sibelius Trainer"
# Please state the Chapter(s) of the Sibelius User Guide you already searched in order to solve your problem.
# Remember that this is not an official Sibelius website.

Rink
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by Rink » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:23 am

Zapruder wrote:I am aware of the fact that in drum method books that balanced look is quite standard. The problem is that drummers (pop, jazz, ...) almost never follow the standard notations but have constructed their own. Indeed, there is even a big difference between American and European drum notation.
Even the placing of the different instruments on the staff differs from book to book. So, it's quite tricky to talk about "the industries standard". But I do get your point and I also can see the benefits of that balanced look.

Just give me some more time. I'll think this one over and maybe I'm able to come up with a better solution (but I can't guarantee it ...)

Zap
Thank you once again for your helpful and intelligent response. It is certainly true that the lack of a common standard, as well as the general lack of discipline regarding drum notation is not helping anyone. Thank you very much for considering this matter further. I'm going to try and find how publishers find their way around this problem and if I get any luck I will inform you on it.

Your help is much appreciated

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