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Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5 ?

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Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5 ?

Postby TAOTECHING » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:27 pm

So far, I have discovered a very interesting effects of the CC MIDI controllers contained within the channels of Kontakt-5 both on cellos and bassoons in my composition, because they made them sound with: Expression, dynamics and passion, but there are several compasses (bars) that are not functioning in this way, even although these controllers which appear in a number of 13 within the 16 channel of Kontakt-5, are exactly the same in number and quality in those compasses where the cellos sound perfectly with that passion, just like in those another compasses where the cellos sound very poor, without no dynamics, neither expression, nor passion at all.
******
I realized several proofs with the normal MIDI messages in Sibelius 7, and the most eloquent and conclusive test has been that, in the compass 818 of my composition, in which the bassoons sound perfectly, thanks to the controllers that this instrument contains in the interface of Kontakt-5 within its 11 channel , it has happened that on having indicated in this compass the MIDI message: ~C122,0 - by which should be annulled all the MIDI controllers that affect to this compass, and from now on from the same one, I have observed:
That this MIDI message ~C122,0 do not Annul a all the effects of the above mentioned controlers of the interface: Expression, dynamics and passion with which they sound normally, …. ! which allows me to conclude that as there are written these messages, of a normal way, can only affect to the staves in which they are indicated (and on the following ones as well), but they do not exercise any influence on the controllers contained within the interface of Kontakt-5, unless any specific code, order or command, could be indicated to achieve that they could produce the above mentioned influences of expression, dynamics and passion, restoring them or annulling them. Therefore, if to obtain such control is technically possible, I believe that I can conclude that by this way, with the normal MIDI messages as they are indicated in this web, there cannot be restored the effect of the controlers indicated in the interface, just as they cannot be annulled either, unless any special code was added to obtain such an effect.
******
Therefore, my question is: Is it technically possible any kind of commands to restore those effects of expression, dynamics and passion, which are produced by the CC MIDI controllers, contained within the channels of the interface of Kontakt-5 in those compasses where they are not functioning ?
******
I am working with Sibelius 7.1.3 with MAC OS X - 10.7.5 and I also indicate the screen of the configuration of the 16 channel of the cellos within the interface of Kontakt-5.
I should add also that both cellos and bassoons are using the libraries Personal Orchestra Garritan.
******
Thank you very much for your attention.
Attachments
CELLOS CC MIDI CONTROLLERS  CONFIGURATION IN ITS 16 CHANNEL IN THE INTERFACE OF KONTAKT-5 (DOWN). .png
CELLOS CC MIDI CONTROLLERS CONFIGURATION IN ITS 16 CHANNEL IN THE INTERFACE OF KONTAKT-5 ( UP ).
CELLOS CC MIDI CONTROLLERS CONFIGURATION IN ITS 16 CHANNEL IN THE INTERFACE OF KONTAKT-5 (DOWN). .png (155.05 KiB) Viewed 588 times
CELLOS CC MIDI CONTROLLERS  CONFIGURATION IN ITS 16 CHANNEL IN THE INTERFACE OF KONTAKT-5 ( UP ). .png
CELLOS CC MIDI CONTROLLERS CONFIGURATION IN ITS 16 CHANNEL IN THE INTERFACE OF KONTAKT-5 (DOWN).
CELLOS CC MIDI CONTROLLERS CONFIGURATION IN ITS 16 CHANNEL IN THE INTERFACE OF KONTAKT-5 ( UP ). .png (159.67 KiB) Viewed 588 times
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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5 ?

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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5

Postby MikeLyons » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:25 am

As somebody has said to you in the Sibelius help community, you are expecting Sibelius to behave like a DAW. It isn't and has never been.

Sibelius' prime function is the production of the printed page, which it does so much better than the native printing functions of, say, Cubase or Logic.

While it is possible to put CC controls on the notation (using ~Cx,y) or even program changes (~Px,y) it's clunky and awkward to use. There are plugins that can automate some things (cresc.dim playback) to give the expression you are looking for, but really the only way you are going to get that properly is with human players.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 8.5, Windows 10, 8MB RAM, 7TB 7200RPM Storage, Note Performer 2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.
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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5

Postby TAOTECHING » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:10 pm

Only I am referring that Sibelius 7 plays my composition with an apparent abnormality and it is the fact that a technical reason must exist, that is to say purely a computing reason (inside the musical computer science)), that tells why in a few compasses the cellos sound perfectly, with dynamics, expression and passion because there does not exist any obstacle that prevents one from being able to apply the effects of the CC MIDI controllers contained in the interface of Kontakt-5, and nevertheless there are other compasses in which for any unknown technical reason, the cellos sound very poor, subdued, because there cannot be applied the effects of the above mentioned CC MIDI controllers, because there must exist any technical obstacle that it prevents. Which is this obstacle ?
This is exactly what I would need to know and if it is possible to avoid the above mentioned obstacle, so that the above mentioned effects could be applied by normality.
******
Namely said otherwise, it must happen that the technical circumstances or parameters that exist present or active, in the compasses that sound perfectly because the above mentioned effects are applied, there can not be the same circumstances or parameters that in those other compasses in which the cellos sound very poor, because the above mentioned effects, it is not possible to apply them. I realize of that although this problem is quite difficult having my composition at sight to be able to examine and analyze the most intimate details of its configuration, with possible errors that I could have committed because I am still enough a beginner, it is still much more difficult if it is not at sight. On one hand, I should tell that I cannot understand wherefore the cellos must be formed with "Cellos ks" in the channel 16 of the interface of Kontakt 5, so that they can sound perfectly, if the cellos in the Mixer, are formed by Sibelius Player. And on the other hand, I believe that a hidden relation may exist between the cellos and the bassoons, because when the cellos began sounding so perfectly of dynamics and passion, it happened that the bassoons began sounding very subdued, with a very poor sound.
Thank you very much for all your attention.
TAOTECHING
 
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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5

Postby bobp » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:41 pm

As Mike pointed out, the reason your playback doesn't work the way you want is that Sibelius was never intended to do what you are trying to do. Sibelius is notation software. That's it. Earlier versions used Kontakt player, but now it uses Sibelius player. Using Kontakt is unsupported by Avid, so there is no guaranty that it will work at all. Sibelius is not midi based. Sure it has some midi capabilities, but they are extremely limited. There is no glitch or bug.

On the plus side, at least it works except for the few measures that it doesn't.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop
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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5

Postby TAOTECHING » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:04 pm

Thank you very much Bobp for your answer. Therefore, I am going to do this question to Native Instruments Community Forum to see if there is any technical solution, although I should have to get some special software or whatever else, since to resolve this problem through Sibelius is quite limited because as you have told to me, it does not offer at all any promising horizon, for not being supported by Avid.
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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5

Postby TAOTECHING » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:22 pm

After having published this post, I discovered a simple solution to my problem of annulment of effects of CC MIDI controllers contained within the interface of Kontakt-5. There may be another more professional solution, but this one works.
Because I got a file where cellos sounded quite aloud and with expression and passion, but the bassoons sounded very weak and poor, I have been able to power this last sound in volume and in expression increasing the groups of the CC MIDI controllers inside the channel of bassoons within the interface of Kontakt-5, being composed this group by:
*****
sustain legato legato#1 sustain#1
*****
I increased this group from 1 up to 10 groups, using the function: "duplicate selected groups"
and in this way I achieved a quite powered sound and expression and passion in bassoons.
But I had to set the configuration of the bassoons in the Mixer, in this way:
4 channels with Kontakt-5, and the another 4 channels with Sibelius Player, because in order to have a better control of the relative volumes of all the instruments, I have needed to create several registers of the same instrument. In the case of the bassoons, I had to create 8 bassoons. I don't know if in the case of one only instrument which is the most normal use, this solution could work or not. May be it were necessary to duplicate that instrument, and to set one instrument with Kontakt-5 and the other one with Sibelius Player.
Have good luck.
Attachments
BASSOONS CONFIGURATION WITHIN KONTAKT-5..png
INCREASE UP TO 10 GROUPS OF CC MIDI CONTROLLERS WITHIN THE BASSOONS CHANNEL IN KONTAKT-5
BASSOONS CONFIGURATION WITHIN KONTAKT-5..png (121 KiB) Viewed 479 times
BASSOONS CONFIGURATION IN THE MIXER..png
4 BASSOONS CHANNELS SET WITH KONTAKT-5 AND 4 BASSOONS CHANNELS SET WITH SIBELIUS PLAYER
BASSOONS CONFIGURATION IN THE MIXER..png (88.86 KiB) Viewed 479 times
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Re: Annulment of effects of CC MIDI Controllers of Kontakt-5

Postby TAOTECHING » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:47 pm

But be careful !, whenever we close the file with which we are working, and in which we have created these 10 groups of CC MIDI controllers:

sustain - legato - legato#1 - sustain#1

instead of 1 only, in the channel of the bassoon or of the instrument in which we have created them because it had a very poor and weak sound, and whenever we open this file again, there will not keep those10 groups of CC MIDI controllers, therefore, on having open this file, we will have to create again these 10 groups of CC MIDI controllers because otherwise it will sound once more as badly and poor as earlier.
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