Alternating Time Signatures (4/4 + 3/4)

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GoodLukeing
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:46 am

Post by GoodLukeing » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:52 am

Ok so I've got this lovely little piece which is basically in 7/4. But because of syncopation and ties and other stuff it's hard to read, so I think it would be better to split the bars into alternating 4/4 and 3/4 bars.

A few years ago I played in West Side Story and in the famous piece "America" it switched between 6/8 and 3/4. Instead of writing the time signature every bar at the beginning of the piece it just have 4/4 + 3/4 (as in a large addition sign in between theme) which clearly meant that the time signatures switch the whole way through the piece.

So I was wondering how I could do that for my situation here because I don't want a page where ever bar has to have a time signature at the beginning.

PS: This is my first post on this site, let's see how it goes, got high expectations though.


Sebasian
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:46 pm

Post by Sebasian » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:37 am

GoodLukeing wrote: Instead of writing the time signature every bar at the beginning of the piece it just have 4/4 + 3/4
This plug-in from the Sibelius plug-ins Download page might help. I haven't used it, but it may give you the opportunity to make the bars without the time signatures every bar.

http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugin ... ategory=10

You can create a Time Signature such as 4+3/4, and that might do what you want. With a bit of fiddling about you can also make a 4/4 + 3/4 Time signature using Create > Text > Special Text > Time Signatures. In that case you have to make (and position) the + sign separately.

andyg
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:55 pm
Sibelius Version: 7.1.3 and 6.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by andyg » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:38 pm

Hard to say without seeing the score, of course, but if it's just for the sake of clarity of reading, have you considered simply adding extra or dashed barlines to each bar to isolate the 3/4 and 4/4 sections?

You can create a complex time sig quite easily, as per my example. Pages 186 to 188 in the Reference should help you.

And creating the 4/4+3/4 is quite simple. I created the 4+3/4, hid it and inserted the text time sigs in its place. The + was done in Technique text and slid into place, then font size increased a little. Took about a minute.

Depends on how many bars you have to do, I suppose!

Andy :D
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andyg
Posts: 1727
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Sibelius Version: 7.1.3 and 6.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by andyg » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:57 pm

For some reason, the forum won't allow me to add the 2nd example image, but it does work!

I'll try adding it to this post.
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andyg
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:55 pm
Sibelius Version: 7.1.3 and 6.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by andyg » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:05 pm

Well, darn me! It worked this time. :lol:

GoodLukeing
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:46 am

Post by GoodLukeing » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:48 pm

Ok, well I tried the plugin. While it is a useful plugin for multiple time signatures it still writes out all the time signatures everytime they change and didn't give an option for 4+3/4. Oh well, worth a shot.

Yeh so far I've been doing editting stuff like that, hiding every single time signature, moving the first notes at the beginning of the bar to the left so there are no weird spaces and then redrawing the initial time signature. It's just when you've got tons of bars and instruments it isn't the most efficient way.

So I guess I haven't helped my efficiency at this stage, but thanks for the help anyway guys.

For first post on this forum I was surprised how quickly people replied, thought I would wait a week minimum because a forum dedicated to Sibelius is a fairly specific demographic.

andyg
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:55 pm
Sibelius Version: 7.1.3 and 6.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by andyg » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:36 pm

You don't need to be putting in the time sig each bar and then moving the notes. My post explains that you put it in just the once.

GoodLukeing
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:46 am

Post by GoodLukeing » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:52 pm

Oh ok sorry, I misunderstood the comment. My sibelius booklet thing only goes to page 140ish because it's from Sibelius 4 and I have only gotten upgrade cds since then.

So are you saying that you just create a 7/4 bar and hide it, put a 4+3/4 text over it then add barlines in between to divide the 7/4 into 3/4 and 4/4?

I don't know how to create fake barlines in between the bars though, when I mess around with the Create>Bar stuff it usually just hides the real bar or changes it's look to dotted or final or whatever. How am I meant to create the fake bars?

andyg
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:55 pm
Sibelius Version: 7.1.3 and 6.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by andyg » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:14 am

Well, if you buy the plug in mentioned you should have no worries.

To answer your question from my last post, you just create a barline, don't try to insert a bar or anything like that! Create>Barline and then choose.

You should have the Reference with your upgrade, but it's not printed (I think you can buy it from Sibelius and I much prefer a real book that I can look at away from the computer). Go Help>Documentation>Sibelius 6 Reference.

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