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Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

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Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby Carsonics » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:10 am

I'm using UVI Solo Instrument which is multipart and has key switching for instruments (KS) in a lower range of the keyboard map. Sibelius will only recognize notes in the range of the instrument and therefore KS is/can be excluded from changing articulations available in UVI Solo Instruments. The other problem is notating KS events in the score so they change articulations, but not having that notation appear or interfere with the score notation. Key Switching is a very powerful feature in many software synth engines, but I'm not sure Sibelius is really able to handle this situation. Any ideas, solutions, or help would be appreciated. Specifically I am trying to use KS articulation changes for a violin part which Sibelius will only play/recognize in the standard range and the KS notes are below that range (C1 through F1) so articulations cannot be changed not to mention finding a way to notate it without the KS notes being visible.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby bobp » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:12 pm

Why are you writing parts out of the range of the instrument?
Don't forget, the point of Sibelius is to create a score, not perform it so much. If you Google keyswitching in sibelius, all kinds of things come up.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby andyg » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:46 pm

I'll echo what Bob just said and, if by chance you are thinking that Sibelius will handle virtual instruments like a DAW, you'll be very disappointed. It won't.

The correct way to proceed would be to write a full or partial soundset for the virtual instrument. I assume that the keyswitches change articulations on the instrument? If so then the soundset would map the sounds to instructions written in the score, like arco and pizz for strings.

Or you might end up creating two scores. One to look correct, so you can give it to real musicians to play, and one that looks wrong, showing all those odd keyswitch notes, using a new instrument with a wider range of notes, but still being routed to the appropriate UVI sound to play back correctly.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby Carsonics » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:29 pm

The video on how to do it is called "Sibelius: How To Create 3rd Party Keyswitches" Thank you for your advice and responses. As a new member I cannot post the link yet, but you can find It easily online. It can be done!
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby bobp » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:16 am

Well, it looks to me like that video showed you how to deal with out of range keyswitches and hide the keyswitch staff. Yes?
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby Carsonics » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:15 am

Yes Bobp, it appears so. I have to go through the process and try it out. Interesting that when I tried direct recording I could use the key switching with of course the horrible notation results since all notes print on the score. Some might not think using key switching with Sibelius is a good idea, but most of the good orchestral software takes advantage of the KS feature and truthfully the sonic results are so much better, much more realistic. I also use Sibelius for primary notation purposes, but the possibilities exist for better sonic results with new software and I'm interested in exploring that potential. When you have a program like Ircam Solo Instruments with advanced articulations and techniques - you have to find a way to exploit those feaures. Yes, you could use a DAW, but notation software has specific advantages for composers.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby bobp » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:53 pm

If you are looking for help using keyswitching, you might need to ask in the official Avid site. There are many more users there. There are only a few who answer questions here and it seems none of us use it. The quest for good playback is ongoing no mater what software we all use. Personally, Sibelius cost too much money to have to supplement it with with a lot of other sound libraries and software. More power to those who can afford to do that. Of course, quality results cost money. No argument there. And everyone has a different idea of what sounds good. One standard procedure is to write in notation, then send to a DAW to get the best recording.
If you write something in Sibelius and playback with the default instruments that Sibelius loads, chances are the result will not be that great. There is no section in the manual that tells you how to get the best playback. But there are many things that can be done that are hidden throughout the manual that improve playback significantly. These range from defining expressions, techniques,and symbols, to dealing with individual notes.
To me, first and foremost, we must write good music. If we have rely on software magic to fix what we write, we have to ask ourselves what is wrong with what we wrote.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby Carsonics » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:54 am

Here is valuable and important information about using 3rd part soundsets with Sibelius! Important: you have to have the 3rd Party soundset or it will not work! Manually setting it up is an ordeal only for computer nerds or techies. So there is a company that sells the soundsets already configured and mapped for only $15. The company is called The Soundset Project and they do have many different soundsets including the UVI Ircam Solo Instruments. Sorry I am not allowed to post the link yet as a new member. So if you want more detailed sounds via key switching for articulations and more, special staffs, notations, etc., check out this option.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby Carsonics » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:14 am

Bobp, I couldn't disagree with your last post more. I am a professional musician and university trained and educated composer and musician. I have been using software and music technology for decades. Especially when writing electronic music expanding your sound sources is important - and VERY EASY to do with VST integration which is simple in Sibelius! Not expensive if you already own those products - put the .dll file in the Sibelius VST folder and it is available with the advanced notation Sibelius offers. If you need to limit your creativity to the stock soundsets that's your choice. If you need to limit your definition of what Sibelius can do then you aren't experimenting enough or trying new things - the software is deep, but only if you make the effort. I did - I wanted to integrate powerful orchestral software Ircam Solo Instruments (which features contemporary music techniques and articulations not found in standard libraries) with my notation software and found the solutions by asking questions and doing research and expanding my technical compositional ability which is necessary for creativity. Thank you.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby bobp » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:21 pm

I'm not arguing with you. Sorry if you think so.
I am well aware of the Soundset Project and the capabilities Sibelius offers to expand to other libraries. I know of those who have spent thousands on VSTs. And, for what it's worth, I am also a university trained composer and musician. All that has little to do with anything.

You and I approach Sibelius and composing differently. There's nothing wrong with that. You look on not using every piece of tech I can as limiting. I look at it as a challenge. For me, I need to write the very best music I can with the tools at my disposal. There was no notation software when I went to school. We used paper and pencil. I wrote for a while after college but gave it up as paper was not good for me. Only much later was i able to get Sibelius, and started writing again. I don't rely solely on playback to write. Sure, playback is important, but not my ultimate goal. If I don't start with good music, playback doesn't mean anything. And playback won't fix bad music.
I'm glad you are finding the answers you need.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby Carsonics » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:59 am

Thanks for responding to my post and offering advice - I appreciate that. I inquired about a technical aspect of using current music software and specifically Sibelius and Ircam Solo Instruments and key switching - not a lecture or your opinion on composing. Perhaps you have confused the two - how you (or I) compose music, what is good or bad, what tools one chooses to use was not the topic or discussion. I'll assume your intentions were good, however I have solved the problem in my original post and I encourage you to keep an open mind about music software and technology in 2019. There are new things happening and exploration is essential with new tools. Best
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby andyg » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:46 pm

Glad you found a soundset for it. The Soundset Project has produced some very useful stuff!

To be honest, integrating VSTi's with Sibelius is not easy - unless there is a soundset available, or you have the ability to write one. Some people write partial soundsets, just to operate a VSTi with a few sounds.
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Re: Using Sibelius Ultimate with Key Switching KS Software

Postby bobp » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:37 pm

Excellent. Glad you got what you needed. I'm sure it was obvious from the outset that I had no useful information for you. I was not trying to lecture you. I was, in part, trying to get information from you to decide for myself if keyswitching was of any value to me. Thanks for sharing. I am in no way opposed to new technologies. Your question prompted me to do some research. Isn't that part of what a forum is about? You may not have come away from this discussion with what you were looking for, but I did gain something from it. We shared ideas. That in itself is of great value.
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