Pick-up bar in Sib 6

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clearvision
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by clearvision » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:27 pm

I am trying to accomplish the very basic task of starting a piece with a pickup bar in Sibelius 6.0, so far with lots of wasted energy and no success. The reference manual’s only mention of pick-up bar is under Creating irregular bars (pg. 90). So, the implied logic from the reference manual is: “that’s how you get a pick-up bar” – by creating an irregular bar. Fine. Only, a pick-up bar, by definition, is the 1st bar. So, when you create one, you have to delete what was previously the first bar and by doing that you lose the title, author, lyricist, arranger, birthdates, formatting and, … but I stop here… I think I do need those and I’m not sure but it might be better if I didn’t have to go find a way how to recreate them, but keep what I’ve spent time writing, instead. So, with this task in mind, I wonder: – how do I keep my time signature, and title and all, and replace my first bar with a pick-up bar? (which should be a simple function, visible and easy to find) I also tried to add a time signature to the pick-up bar to see if this will keep my Title. Now my pick-up bar became a full bar, which is not what I want. I want a pick-up bar, an aufgang! You’d think this pick-up bar is so rare and unseen that Sibelius doesn’t have a quick and intuitive way of doing it or at least a manual explanation that makes sense and works.
Thanks for your help that I appreciate very much and waiting patiently for your replies so I can go back to music :?


KJ_Palmer
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 am
Sibelius Version: 6.2, 7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by KJ_Palmer » Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:05 pm

It took me quite a while to get comfortable with adding pick-up bars, so I understand your frustration!

If you add an irregular bar at the beginning, as the manual says, you shouldn't lose your titles, headings etc. Make sure nothing is selected by pressing the Esc key (or Mac equivalent) two or three times (to be sure). Go to Create > Bar > Other > Number of bars = 1 > Irregular. choose the length of the pickup bar from the note values in the drop down box - this may need to be additive to get the right value (e.g. quarter note + dot + quarter note or whatever). OK this, the mouse arrow should now be 'loaded' with the pickup bar, so click somewhere before the first bar (you could go all the way over to the left) and you should have your empty pickup bar, with everything else intact.

If you really want to make the existing first bar a pickup you could do this by changing its time signature, but this could get messy if they're not empty. You'd have to change the time signature of following bars and hide or delete time signatures you don't want to show. I used to do this myself, and the irregular bar thing is much easier, even if it's not well explained in the manual (or by me).
Sibelius 6.2, 7.5.1, Windows 11

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:08 am

In Sib6, you can still have a pickup bar at the start - if you know you're going to have one - by using the time sig dialog when you create a new file.
pickup bar when creating score.png
pickup bar when creating score.png (39.09 KiB) Viewed 3001 times
Adding one afterwards is tricky and sib 6 doesn't move the system text. Later versions of Sib do. However, there is a plug-in that you can use which will make the task easier. The plug-in is called Add pickup bar and it does move the system objects.

https://www.sibelius.com/download/plugi ... category=6
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

clearvision
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by clearvision » Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:57 pm

Hi,
-
KJ_Palmer wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:05 pm
If you add an irregular bar at the beginning, as the manual says, you shouldn't lose your titles, headings etc. Make sure nothing is selected by pressing the Esc key (or Mac equivalent) two or three times (to be sure). Go to Create > Bar > Other > Number of bars = 1 > Irregular. choose the length of the pickup bar from the note values in the drop down box - this may need to be additive to get the right value (e.g. quarter note + dot + quarter note or whatever). OK this, the mouse arrow should now be 'loaded' with the pickup bar, so click somewhere before the first bar (you could go all the way over to the left) and you should have your empty pickup bar, with everything else intact.
I tried that but the result is the same: The title and authors are tied to the time signature in the (old, undesired) 1st bar. I pressed Esc six or seven times before everything else. I even tried adding a time signature to the 2nd bar hoping the Title will attach to the time signature in the 2nd bar and thus I'd be able to delete the 1st one after I'd have created the pickup, without losing Titles. That didn't work. As I added the irregular bar (clicked with the loaded mouse-arrow to the left of the 1st barr, outside the staff) the pickup bar that was created did not have the title transferred to it. Instead, the titles/authors remained attached to the old bar and when I, naturally, try to delete the old bar the Title disappears. Please see the attachment.
Attachments
1st bar tied to Title_can't_make_pickup_bar.png
1st bar tied to Title_can't_make_pickup_bar.png (115.52 KiB) Viewed 2987 times

clearvision
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by clearvision » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:10 pm

KJ_Palmer wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:05 pm
Adding one afterwards is tricky and sib 6 doesn't move the system text. Later versions of Sib do. However, there is a plug-in that you can use which will make the task easier. The plug-in is called Add pickup bar and it does move the system objects.
Hi,
I downloaded the plugin but I don't seem to be able to find it in Sibelius. I found these instructions online on how to add a plugin to Sibelius:
- "C:\Program Files\Sibelius Software\Sibelius.
Inside this folder you will see a folder called Plugins. Double-click this folder to view its contents.
Copy the plug-in you downloaded into this folder."

However, there is no Plugins folder so I copied it to the Sibelius 6 folder. Please see attachment:
I do not find it anywhere under the PLugin tab in Sibelius. Can you please specify the folder where the plugin should be copied to, and then where to find it in Sibelius, (along with any instructions on how to use it/apply it to the bar, unless it is obvious)? Thanks
p.s. I did restart Sibelius after all this and did not find the plug-in in Sibelius.
Attachments
AddPickupBar_pluggin_where_does_it_go.png
AddPickupBar_pluggin_where_does_it_go.png (153.94 KiB) Viewed 2986 times

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:21 pm

If you're using Sib 6, then the plugin folder will be inside a folder called Sibelius 6.

You will need to unzip the file you downloaded and copy the plg file to

C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Roaming\Sibelius Software\Sibelius 6\Plugins

If the Plugins folder doesn't exist you will need to create it and then copy the file there.

You can also find the folder by typing %appdata% into the address bar of an explorer window. Then you can navigate to the plugins folder from there.

While you are doing this, make sure Sibelius is completely quit, not even running in the background. Use Task Manager to shut it down if you find an instance of it running (or paused).

You probably don't have to, but you could do a system restart before running Sib 6 and then you can check whether the plugin has installed.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

clearvision
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by clearvision » Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:15 pm

I had so much trouble with this because there are multiple Sibelus 6 folders and I didn't catch this difference.
There is one under this directory C: >Program files (x86) > Sibelius Software > Sibelius 6.

That looked like where I should be looking for a software, (that is program files), cuz, uhm, Sibelius is a software. But I was looking in the wrong place. I just thought it must have looked different in your directory/version of Win since I had already found the same under program files. But no. Like in Dostoyevsky, there is a double, and I wish I knew that.

Not knowing what else to do I decided to follow your directory exactly, C:\Users\ [user name]\AppData\Roaming\Sibelius Software\Sibelius 6, and I still didn't find a Plugins folder there. So I created one there as well, (after creating one under the Sibelius 6 that is in Program files.)
Finally, when I did that, I was able to see the plugin and use it in Sibelius. Taa-daaaa!
I am happy to report that it does work nicely and the titles are now attached to the pickup bar (although I have to go and rest for a while now :P ).

Thank you, Mike

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:29 pm

You must delete any other folders you created called plugins and and plg files that you copied or moved to directories other than the one I showed you. If you don't, you run the risk of Sibelius becoming very confused (not difficult, I know). The folder tree I gave you is the "User Editable Files" folder where all your own manuscript templates and other user files are kept.

I'm really pleased it is working for you.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

clearvision
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by clearvision » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:50 am

Will do. Thanks very much, Mike

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