Wide margins enforced in printing

Discuss general Sibelius issues here. Get help with Sibelius and Sibelius Support.
Post Reply
pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:26 pm

I'm using Sibelius 8.6, printing one-page scores to a Brother MFC 9340 CDW. The Layout tab of the program gives me a standard staff size (4.0 mm), which I usually want to increase. But whatever changes I make on the Layout tab, the printed version comes out with two-inch margins on both left and right, which makes the music block small and hard to read. What is enforcing these 2" margins, and how do I override it?


MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:40 pm

Can you post a screenshot from your print dialog, showing the Page Setup options from the lower left side.
print page setup.png
print page setup.png (48.28 KiB) Viewed 5061 times
Also, Layout-->Document Setup, showing the margins you have set.

Don't forget that parts and score have different settings.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:02 am

Thank you for replying. See attachment. But when I try to change those margin numbers and press OK, nothing happens, and when I go back into the page setup they have returned to the same margins (0.166) they were before. As for Layout>Document Setup, that's where I try to change the staff size and the margins, and again nothing happens as a result of the changes I make.

Philip
Attachments
Screenshot (73).png
Screenshot (73).png (240.22 KiB) Viewed 5056 times

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:30 am

I still need to see your page setup settings.
What version of the printer driver are you using and what is the exact version of your OS and of Sibelius?
I am thinking you might be on a mac with an OS that isn't fully compatible with sibelius, but there are still avenues to explore.
AFAICR, I have never experienced intractable margins. It'll be interesting to see if it ports over to 2021.12.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:43 pm

I'm confused. What I sent you was not my page setup settings? Or did my screen shot not appear? I'll try it again. All four margins are set unalterably at 0.166. [attachment=0]Screenshot (74).png]

My operating system is Windows 10, and I am using Sibelius 8.6.1. The printer driver is Brother MFC9340CDW x64 Type 3 User mode.
Attachments
Screenshot (74).png
Screenshot (74).png (226.5 KiB) Viewed 5035 times

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:23 am

Sorry, I should have said Document setup settings.
document setup.png
document setup.png (49.68 KiB) Viewed 5027 times
I'm currently on Win 11. Your settings should not be too different from mine.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:57 am

Hello, Mike Lyons. I'm sorry to be so obtuse, but I cannot find the Document Setup page you display. Clearly that is what I need, because I will be able to change those margins, but I can't find it. I did a Google search on "document setup," and I tried to follow the instructions I found, but they didn't match the directories and files I have in Windows 10. How do I find that page?

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:02 am

OK. It's not your fault. Some of Sib's most important settings have been hidden in tiny little buttons in the corners of other buttons on the God-awful ribbon.

See the image.
document setup route.png
document setup route.png (116.23 KiB) Viewed 4998 times
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:50 pm

Bah. The screen shot is too big, so this forum rejects it. Here is the information, in inches:

Page size: Hymn (5.75x8.25) [PS: I'm not doing hymns, I'm transcribing two-voice songs from Timor]
Width: 5.75 [note: width is the crucial parameter. In fact, when my transcriptions print out, the width of the music block is 4.5 inches--that's what I wish I could expand, reducing the 2" margins on left and right]
Height: 8.25
Staff size: 0.16

Page margins: Same Left 0.59

Staff margins: [I don't understand these dimensions]
Full names

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:53 pm

I didn't finish entering the settings in the previous post:

Staff margins:
Full names 0.84 0.94
Short names 0.26
No names 0.06 0.5

After first page:
Full 0.5
No 0.3

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:51 pm

1. Why is the page size so small? What size pages are you printing on? Is there a reason for these tiny sizes?
2. The page margins are the empty space around the music
3. The staff margins and extra spaced allowed around the top and bottom staves and the ends of the staff and the page margins. (for things like instrument names in scores and so on).

The left margin ends up being Page margin +staff margin (0.59" + 0.84") giving a total left margin of 1.43"
The right margin is just 0.59" If you turn on View --> Staff Rulers, you can see these values.

Vertically, your top margin is 0.5" + 0.59" (1.09") and your bottom margin is 0.89".

The second line will be less indented on the left because the space for short names is smaller than the space for full names.
An important consideration is that you should, if you are not using instrument names, set the Appearance--> Instrument names to None. This will use the smallest space on the left. Given that your page size is so small, you need to revisit your margin settings.
margins set small.png
margins set small.png (69.8 KiB) Viewed 4980 times
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:11 am

OK, I think we're getting closer to a solution. The page is so small because I chose Hymn format, and those are the dimensions Sibelius gives for that format. I chose Hymn only because the songs I transcribe tend to require only two systems of two staves each. I used to use Barbershop format, and that gave no problems. I'll try going back to that.

Thank you, Mike Lyons, I think maybe my problem is solved. I hope I won't need to bother you again.

Philip Y.

andyg
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:55 pm
Sibelius Version: 7.1.3 and 6.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by andyg » Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:41 pm

Let me get this right....

You're creating a Hymn sized score, but then telling the printer to print it out on Letter sized paper? If so, of course you're going to have huge margins. If you used Hymn sized paper (if there is such a thing - you might need to use the nearest 'A' sized paper) then it should print out correctly.

Of course, if that's wrong, ignore me! :)

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:39 pm

Hi Andy. Thanks for chipping in. I did consider mentioning that, but I didn't think anyone would do something so...unintuitive! :D
Last edited by MikeLyons on Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

pakarena
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 pm
Sibelius Version: 8.6
Operating System: Windows

Post by pakarena » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:40 pm

Andy and Mike: In my defense, I never knew about the Document Setup page. When I chose Hymn format (for the reasons I explained earlier), I didn't know it would commit me to a miniature size. I was indeed printing it on letter-size paper and getting vast margins. Now if I choose Letter size (instead of just printing on it) and increase the normal staff size to .25" (from 4 mm), I get a score I can read. Thanks again to Mike.

Post Reply