Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

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thesoundsmith
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:54 am

Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by thesoundsmith » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am

Big band chart, SOME of the dynamics expressions are not being acted upon. The saxes and trumpts are fine, trombones stay on ff unless altered by a hairpin. I have run the midi cresc./dim plug-in and the hairpins work, but p, ff etc. are ignored.

This is a new installation on a new Windows 10 computer, 8.7.2 but the files are from the old machine (v8,not sure if it was the same revision) which worked till the box died. Using Sib Sounds (Jazz). How do I re-activate the markings, hopefully without having to re-enter them?

Thanks.
Dasher

It's all about the music. I keep telling myself that...

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

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thesoundsmith
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:54 am

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by thesoundsmith » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:15 pm

Thanks, but none of those relate to this issue. Most of the tracks are following the dynamics, just the trombones - 3 bones, one bass - just blat at ff.

I was hoping there was a toggle in setup or some such, but I guess I'll have to try rebuilding/copying the tracks and see if that helps.
Dasher

It's all about the music. I keep telling myself that...

MikeLyons
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Sibelius Version: Ult. 2021.12/7.5/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by MikeLyons » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:44 pm

Make sure that the dynamic text is listed in the dictionary and set to a sensible value. Try importing one of the 'standard house styles and see if that corrects the problem. Failing that, email me the file and I'll see if I can spot what is going wrong.

BTW, that response was an automated 'sponsored link' they are generally just trying to sell you something!
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2022.7, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

thesoundsmith
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:54 am

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by thesoundsmith » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:01 pm

Thanks. I tried changing to the standard Sib House Style in an earlier version and the dynamics were back, but the articulations were still off. Reloaded the newer version without changing setups and the dynamics seem to be working, reloaded the Jazz version and dynamics may be back. Thanks, I am going through the dictionary and it looks normal.
Dasher

It's all about the music. I keep telling myself that...

thesoundsmith
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:54 am

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by thesoundsmith » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:09 pm

I'm back. The dynamics seem to be ignoring me again. Tried other house style, other playback config, also dynamics down one then back, to no avail. The dictionary had p set to 61, seemed high so I dropped it to 50, no change, hanged to Jazz Reprise, dictionary says it sets p to 39- it still plays ff...

I have enclosed the score, any ideas greatly appreciated (everything is up to date system-wise.)
Attachments
Big Greasy Elephant 9dyn.zip
(238.98 KiB) Downloaded 230 times
Dasher

It's all about the music. I keep telling myself that...

MikeLyons
Posts: 1460
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2021.12/7.5/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by MikeLyons » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:35 am

Couple of things.

1, your first five staves are set to 'half mute', so everything else will be that much louder by comparison.
2. Your dictionary definitions are way out. You need to reset them.
3. You are using midi control codes (C7) to control the crescendos - why? Are you on an early version of Sibelius? The final code will determine the volume of the notes after it. with C7 you need to reset it C7,64 at the end of the cresc.Using C7 is like turning up the volume control on an amp. Once it is turned, it stays there.

Hope that helps
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2022.7, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

thesoundsmith
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:54 am

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by thesoundsmith » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:08 pm

Thanks - first off, I forgot there WAS a half-mute. That probably explains why I thought the reed dynamics were OK. But volume midi messages? How else do hairpins operate?

This file has been under development for at least ten years, with dozens of rewrites and updates, and I have zero recollection of what I may have done earlier, How can I clear the old midi data? Every track was written, not played. I have been trying both Sibelius Jazz and JABB configurations, so I have bounced between CC11 and CC7 for volume. I use the cres/dim playback plug-in to generate crescendo messages, so I would expect some CC7 (or CC11) messages. But I do not expect to return to 64 after a crescendo, I expect to stay at the new volume till the next expression message.

I think one bottom line issue is something I have not figured out - how do I view the actual midi data stream? (If you are using another app (and on PC) what app? My old Kurzweil midi viewer tanked years ago.)

Just tried several versions of these suggestions. Using the Cres\Dim plug as reference, I updated the dictionary to those values (quite different.) I am VERY curious why the attack has always been set lower than the sustained note - do you know why? I did set them to the same value. And while the playback is different, it still is not correct (I had audio from earlier versions that play as I would expect, since I had to change computers and reinstall, not so much. (Almost same machine, same Win 10...).)

Also tried both CC11 and CC7 for cres .playback - again, different but not right. The cres values act like there are two streams running. I need to examine the raw data, how did you do that?

Anyway, thanks for the help and for suffering through my diatribe. Any further ideas gratefully accepted.
Dasher

It's all about the music. I keep telling myself that...

MikeLyons
Posts: 1460
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Sibelius Version: Ult. 2021.12/7.5/6.2
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Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by MikeLyons » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:36 pm

Since about Sib 7.5 you have had no need to use midi messages to control crescs and dims. Sib will play crescs and dims automagically and you can use the inspector to change the end value/% as well as other aspects of the line.

If you have View->Hidden Objects turned on, you can see the C7 messages as grey text (because the tilde (~) sign hides the text. You can use filter/find to get rid of these.

I have used JABB (and COMB2 and GPO 4/5) in the past, but went over to NotePerformer because it was cheaper and sounded better. I don't have any need to mess with midi controllers since then. Mind you, I'm not so bothered about playback that I would want to spend 10 hours adjusting the mix for a 4 minute piece. Waaaay past my point of no return! it may be that you are into the music production side, where I am only really interested in the printed score and a very rough demo. The only thing I ever adjust is the panning, which I think Sib gets quite wrong in most cases.

As you are on Sib 8.x, you might be better getting rid of the C7 codes altogether and adjust your cresc/dim through the Inspector.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2022.7, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

thesoundsmith
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:54 am

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by thesoundsmith » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:46 pm

(Thought I replied to this earlier...) Thanks. Good info and good ideas, and I will work with them.
Dasher

It's all about the music. I keep telling myself that...

madahorn
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:13 pm
Sibelius Version: 2022.10
Operating System: Windows

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by madahorn » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:34 pm

When I turn on "view hidden objects" I can see the numeric value and double click to change the ending dynamic in the plugin.
I still have to use the plugin and don't mind too much. Sibelius will not read my hairpin marking no matter what setting I have tried so far. 2022 version using both Sibelius samples and Kontakt samples. Strange I think...

MikeLyons
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2021.12/7.5/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by MikeLyons » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:59 am

If you have live playback turned on, Sibelius will largely ignore any written in dynamics. At best they will be played in a much more muted way as priority is given to the playback volumes encoded in live playback.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2022.7, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

madahorn
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:13 pm
Sibelius Version: 2022.10
Operating System: Windows

Re: Dynamics no longer obeyed on playback

Post by madahorn » Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:49 pm

My Live playback is definitely off. Crescendo looks correct in the inspector also. But, no affect unless I use the plug in. All other dynamics, accents, trills work.

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