Tempo variations in Sibelius (also using NotePerformer)

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elisatems
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 2:24 am
Sibelius Version: Ultimate
Operating System: Mac

Post by elisatems » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:26 pm

Ever since introducing some changes of tempo into a piece I'm writing, I've noticed uncommanded tempo variations at odd places in the score. Usually it is just a slight rushing ahead for a beat or two, barely perceptible, but I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining things. Has anyone else heard something like this before, or especially using recent releases of Sibelius?

A possible confounder: at the same time, I also upgraded to 2020.6 build 2711. So it might have nothing to do with tempo changes elsewhere in my score, and might be a new bug in Sibelius. The reason I don't think that is it is that Arne Wallander reported hearing something similar during a private conversation we were having about a bug where solo instruments in a chamber setting fall out of sync with each other. I am not noticing that problem with the instrumental combination I'm using here (string orchestra), and did not notice it when Arne reported it. At the time 2020.6 had not been released, though I guess it's possible that he was sent a pre-release version.


MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:39 pm

Without seeing the actual score we can only guess. Prime suspects are:
1. Sibelius and/or NP both interpreting. Turn Sib's Play-->Interpretation features all to meccanico
2. Tempo words that are not necessarily in tempo text being acted upon (in stage directions or other text)
3. Hidden metronome marks from MIDI import or XML import
4. Not enough RAM or too many background programs running at the same time.
5. Live playback

Let's see the score for more accurate imformation.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

elisatems
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 2:24 am
Sibelius Version: Ultimate
Operating System: Mac

Post by elisatems » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:38 am

Hi Mike,

You've seen the score... ;) (Ricercare). The only thing I added were tempo changes. All performance settings are Meccanico, and there are no tempo words or metronome markings at the places where the tempo sometimes hurries. All tempo words are in tempo text anyway. It is as if the tempo changes were not attached to the places in the score where I put them, but drifted somewhere else.

This score was not imported, period. There are no hidden metronome markings.

With 16 GB RAM there should be no such issues.

There is no live playback.

I will send you the updated .sib file privately.

Liz

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:47 am

Hi Liz,

What a cracking piece. I'm sorry to say this but I heard absolutley no uneveness other than NP's attempt at humanisation.

There are places in the music where the harmonic and rhythmic drive changes gear. There are places where the musical tension seems to propel the individual lines forward, but I found nothing untoward in that. It's a very emotional experience in places.

I watched the metronome throughout my second listening and it never moved from the set tempos. One or two tempos, perhaps because of their length were not quite sitting in the right places. - I assume each change starts on the 2nd beat of a bar? You can put line breaks in the text which will help with positioning them.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

elisatems
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 2:24 am
Sibelius Version: Ultimate
Operating System: Mac

Post by elisatems » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:41 am

Hi Mike,

Thanks for looking at it and for your comments! Maybe it is my imagination after all... I did not try the metronome because as far as I understand it is a purely auditory clicking, which if the perceived speed variations are my imagination, then the metronome might sound to me like it's speeding up. Is there a visual representation of it as well, maybe on the timeline? I'll have to dig into the reference some more.

But I have to ask: have you upgraded SIb to 2020.6? I did NOT notice this until I upgraded, and unfortunately I added the tempo changes around the same time. I am thinking of trying to reinstall 2020.1 (current version at time of purchase) but am not sure whether this is safe.

BTW: no, the accel/rit notations end on the second beat of the bar, but the new tempo text is always supposed to be attached to the downbeat. Should it matter? BTW I adjusted the "envelope" of each tempo change in the Inspector so the changes are linear and always end on the new tempo. They shouldn't undershoot or overshoot. But it sounds to me like the ritard just before the start of Variation III does overshoot some. My imagination?

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