Sib 8 playback challenges

Discussion of playback and midi issues go here.
BlackDorito
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:36 pm
Sibelius Version: 8
Operating System: Windows

Post by BlackDorito » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:00 pm

I posted this on another forum yesterday and it occurs to me there may be interested parties over here. Basically a list of things that could make my life easier wrt. my daily use of Sibelius 8.

-Chris
-----
I use notation as a DAW, so I need good playback capability. I've been using Sibelius 8 for years ... haven't upgraded because Avid has not added much playback improvement since then.

Wrt. Sibelius 8's DAW/playback shortcomings:

- not easy to import CC values from a MIDI file; not easy to edit CC curves/gestures

- doesn't display current value of CC's at any point in the score (CC1 and CC11 are a must)

- doesn't have graphical/piano-roll views to edit performance nuances (the GMT plug-in is no substitute, sorry)

- the playback Dictionary is a simplistic mechanism that falls far short of articulation maps (e.g. a user-defined marking cannot include multiple CC commands or keyswitches)

- the whole Instrument ID (with separately defined 'sub-instruments' for each articulation - strings.violin.pizzicato) and the soundset concept, wherein Sibelius hops between one instrument and another to implement articulations, is simply not the way the industry went.

- relatedly, soundsets are *silent* .. i.e. it is hard to know what CC will be generated for a particular instrumental marking. In addition, if you happen to have multiple flutes or violins, some mysterious logic within Sibelius hops to different instruments in a fashion that can trigger a laugh.

- setup and implementation of single-line percussion instruments viz. mapping them to popular percussion libraries, is hard.

- trill programming has bugs (perhaps fixed in later versions, who knows)

- in Sibelius you can use lines to guide the distribution of CC commands, but it is hard to tell the exact start/end point wrt. timing just by looking visually at a line. CC lanes in a DAW are much more precise.

Other than the quibbles above, I truly love Sibelius for playback. [I really do.]


MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:16 pm

BlackDorito wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:00 pm

>I use notation as a DAW, so I need good playback capability. I've been using Sibelius 8 for years ... haven't upgraded
>because Avid has not added much playback improvement since then.

There's your first mistake. Sibelius is a typesetting and engraving program. That is its primary purpose. Playback has been treated as an add-on throughout the development of the program and despite Avid trying to bolt on more DAW features. If you want DAW features, use a DAW.

>Wrt. Sibelius 8's DAW/playback shortcomings:

>- not easy to import CC values from a MIDI file;
Yes it is
midi import s75.png
midi import s75.png (32.58 KiB) Viewed 2965 times
>not easy to edit CC curves/gestures

Sibelius will happily imprt MIDI CC if you tell it to in the import dialog.

Why would you want to do this in an engraving program? Again, use a DAW. Curves and gestures are meaningless in an engraving program. Rather use dynamics and phrasing.

>- doesn't display current value of CC's at any point in the score (CC1 and CC11 are a must)

Yes it will if you have View-->Invisibles ticked. However, you can only see it if there is control change there.

>- doesn't have graphical/piano-roll views to edit performance nuances (the GMT plug-in is no substitute, sorry)
Why would you want this in an engraving program? Unless for musical/notation illiterates or children?

>- the playback Dictionary is a simplistic mechanism that falls far short of articulation maps (e.g. a user-defined marking
> cannot include multiple CC commands or keyswitches)
Why would you want this in an engraving program?

>- the whole Instrument ID (with separately defined 'sub-instruments' for each articulation - strings.violin.pizzicato) and
>the soundset concept, wherein Sibelius hops between one instrument and another to implement articulations, is simply
>not the way the industry went.
Actually, you need to read the manual. Sibelius can display the whole soundworld id if you tell it to in Preferences.
sound ids s75.png
sound ids s75.png (77.34 KiB) Viewed 2965 times
>- relatedly, soundsets are *silent* .. i.e. it is hard to know what CC will be generated for a particular instrumental marking.
> In addition, if you happen to have multiple flutes or violins, some mysterious logic within Sibelius hops to different
>instruments in a fashion that can trigger a laugh.
I'm really not sure what you mean here. Sibelius has never done that to me and I've done some quite large scores with multiple choirs, multiple wind/brass and string sections. Soundsets are created, usually by 3rd parties, to map sample libraries to play in Sib. Creating a soundset is not Avid's responsibility. Again, you should have a go at reading the manual. Ch. 6.16 is what you need (in my 7.5 manual)

>- setup and implementation of single-line percussion instruments viz. mapping them to popular percussion libraries, is
> hard.
Yes, it is.

>- trill programming has bugs (perhaps fixed in later versions, who knows)
There have been improvements and disimprovements. There is a bug that was introduced in Sib 7.x which is still there in 2021.2.

>- in Sibelius you can use lines to guide the distribution of CC commands, but it is hard to tell the exact start/end point wrt.
> timing just by looking visually at a line. CC lanes in a DAW are much more precise.

Sibelius is an engraving and typesetting program. it is NOT a DAW. If you want DAW features, use a DAW.

Other than the quibbles above, I truly love Sibelius for playback. [I really do.]
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

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