MTC, Rewire and Sibelius

Discussion of playback and midi issues go here.
Paytidd
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 am
Sibelius Version: Ultimate
Operating System: Mac

Post by Paytidd » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:52 am

This post is regarding the shoddy implementation of MTC via rewire within Sibelius Ultimate.

Part of my workflow is working to video in Sibelius. I produce “mock” scores which I then replace with live performances by real musicians. I also write elaborate multi instrument arrangements which themselves are part of larger arrangements including live musicians/rhythm sections, etc. This all takes place in my production studio, which has a series of computers at its heart, all synced via MTC (smpte). My audio computer runs Pro Tools Ultimate and my mixing console, my video computer runs Final Cut Pro X, and my midi production scoring computer runs Logic Pro. They all work well together.

The weak link in this setup is Sibelius, and this is because Sibelius cannot natively sync to an external clock source. I’ll say that again; The “Premier Music Notation Software by Avid” has no way to natively sync to an external clock source!

To me this is a huge oversight, because film scoring (thee main commercial monetizing force behind scoring) relies on SMPTE. SMPTE timecode was developed many decades ago to sync multiple machines working together as one on a single project. The “modern” implementation of SMPTE is MTC (midi time code), which is essentially SMPTE over midi cable. MTC has been at the center of many studios for the last 40 years.

Though their legacy is film, video and audio, Avid decided to take a short cut to implementing full support for SMPTE/MTC, by doing it over rewire. This means that one can sync to MTC if they have another piece of software installed that can slave to MTC and then send this to Sibelius over rewire.

What?!

Yes, although Avid already has a well implemented SMPTE/MTC module in Pro Tools (which I also own) they decide to hobble Sibelius by only offering sync via rewire. You need third party software to sync externally. In other words, there is no way to set a device to read MTC, or set a SMPTE position which corresponds to bar 1 of a score, as one can do in pro tools, or any other pro DAW. The only thing one can do is open Sibelius in rewire mode and hope for the best.

Let me be clear. Sibelius’ MTC over rewire is horrible! It is inconsistent, lots of dropped frames, which lead to rhythmic inaccuracies on playback, false starts, hanging notes, etc. What’s more, many Sibelius functions do not operate while it is in rewire mode. It’s a nightmare...

So, no pro studio facility can use Sibelius in an active setup.

Now, you can open a video file (or audio file pretending to be a video file) directly in Sibelius. Then you can mess with the start point for the video and score to that, but that is extremely limiting. For instance, if you’re composing and you decide to make a change to the audio file (maybe move one note or turn the drums up) you have to rebounce a stereo file and then reimport it to Sibelius, all while hoping it still syncs as the original did so you can retain the same hit points in your score.....

Why can’t avid just allow the user to add a midi device to read MTC and then decide which time code position to associate with bar 1? That is something which already works in many studios.


MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:34 pm

I hate to tell you this, but Sibelius was devised as a notation/engraving program. The video sync-ing part of the program was, at best, an add-on and has received very little of the developers' time. Let's be brutally honest here - they can't even get some of the basic functionality that Sibelius was designed to do right.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

Paytidd
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 am
Sibelius Version: Ultimate
Operating System: Mac

Post by Paytidd » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:01 pm

Though what you say may be true, Avid frequently promotes Sibelius as “a composition platform”. That is the way that I and many other pro composers use it. I can think of many features, that would be useful to me and a few thousand others, by not to most. I can understand why such functionality is not included, but the ability to synchronize via midi is a most basic feature, which forms the bedrock of almost every pro music production software platform that has midi. It’s part of the midi protocol which at this point is 40 years old!

You can’t call music software pro without MTC. It may as well be Fruity Loops. To design a computer based composition platform which has midi capability without MTC would be like designing a car that cannot reverse. It makes no sense. It makes even less sense once one realizes that this is the very same company that includes Pro Tools and Media Composer as part of its offerings!

Avid obviously realized that synchronization is vital to the platform. This is why they added sync via rewire and the ability to import video for scoring to video. They want people who compose for film to consider their platform, but yet they are not willing to make the investment to fully implement the midi protocol or timecode sync. It’s a half measure for a piece of software which costs $599 for a perpetual license, or $199 per year for a subscription.....

It’s a failure on their part.

MikeLyons
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2024.3.1/7.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by MikeLyons » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:08 am

Up to a point I agree, but I say again, Sibelius is NOT a program for composition. it is a program for ENGRAVING and NOTATING compositions. That was the original purpose of the software.

Avid frequently promotes Sib as part of it's stable of programs, but in reality it has never been properly integrated with Pro-Tools et al. I fully expect Dorico to become fully integrated into Steinberg's Cubase/Nuendo setup, replacing the currently rather poor score unit it contains. Dorico was conceived as a composition tool which is one of the reasons it works so much differently to Sib. As yet, it is still growing, so it is missing some of the functionality, but it IS growing. Sibelius has done nothing much bit tweak stuff or make a mess of stuff over the last decade. They certainly haven't tried to fix some major bugs and failings over that time.

BTW, if you want to be heard by Avid you need to do your complaining in a different forum. This is an old forum that has largely expired. No Avid/Sibelius staffers ever come here now. Use the OFFICIAL forum here: https://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpce ... &groupid=3
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2023.6, Windows 11, 32GB RAM, 16TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.3.2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk

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