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barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

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barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby rumiates » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:34 pm

Hello,

I have a series of measures, each of which repeats. How can I cleanly make the bar lines both end the repeat, and start a new one? When I do Create>Bar Line>End Repeat, and then Create>Bar Line>Start Repeat, it creates two bar lines that I sloppily try to overlap. There must be a cleaner solution??

Thanks.
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

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Postby TheScriabin » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:14 pm

Hmmm,

I find when I do exactly as you have done - selecting the bar line, then clicking Barline/End Repeat and Barline/Start Repeat - Sibelius automatically puts them in the right place and it looks fine. Is that not happening? It should show as 2 thin lines (with their respective dots) either side of 1 thick line.
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby JohnDefoe » Sun May 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Is this a Sibelius (what used to be called 'First') deficiency? If I try this it simply puts an end repeat at the end of the bar instead of making it a 'both repeats'.
On the dropdown list of barline types there is no 'both repeats'. And if I try the previous barline it simply puts the end repeat there. 'Sibelius' 2018.4 build 2016
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby bobp » Sun May 06, 2018 3:25 pm

Make sure you select the bar line first then go to the bar line drop down.
Bob Porter
Sibelius 7.5, W10,i5,16 GB ram,desktop
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby JohnDefoe » Mon May 07, 2018 4:19 pm

Thanks, Bob, but it doesn't work. What's more, I don't think it ever will work. From another program (Lime) I exported XML which contained a barline with both repeats. It came out as ff:
<barline location="right">
<bar-style>light-light</bar-style>
<repeat direction="forward"/>
<repeat direction="backward"/>
</barline>
I tried importing this into Sibelius and Sibelius rejected it saying the repeat was not in scope. (When I removed one of the repeat direction lines it was fine.) I then imported the XML back into Personal Composer (which I've been using for years) and lo and behold, Personal Composer ignored the 'backward' repeat. I've looked at the XML syntax, and there is no 'both'. It'd be interesting to see what XML 7.5 produces for a 'both repeats' barline and whether it would import its own XML in this case!

Best

John
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby MikeLyons » Mon May 07, 2018 5:39 pm

If you have Sibeius 2018.4, then I think you have what used to be called Siblius First. Sibelius is now called Sibelius Ultimate.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 8.5, Windows 10, 8MB RAM, 7TB 7200RPM Storage, Note Performer 2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby JohnDefoe » Tue May 08, 2018 8:20 am

Yes, Mike, that's right (see my post of Sun May 06, 2018 12:47 pm). What I'm wondering is whether Avvid is beginning to lock down Sibelius to pure MXML Version 3 starting with what was the entry level version, now the intermediate level. This is why I'm interested in the precise syntax of the XML that 7.5 for example would produce for a 'both repeats' barline that clearly from the posts it allows. I used Personal Composer for years, and I'm using Lime, along with a VB-Net program I've written, to convert the Personal Composer files to XML that Sibelius will import and which I can then tidy up. Of course, the issue of the both repeats can be gotten around by placing the back repeat at the end of the current bar, making the current bar the first time ending, duplicating the current bar with the forward repeat on the right, and making the new bar the second time ending. But...
Cheers
John
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby bobp » Wed May 09, 2018 10:01 pm

What happens if you try something like MuseScore.
I think I keep hearing you say that because the full version of Sibelius works, then you feel that you should be able to force your version to work. I have a feeling that certain things are not blocked, just not there.
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby JohnDefoe » Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 am

Hi Bob

As I suspected, the XML that Lime outputs is in fact invalid. However, thanks very much for the MuseScore suggestion. MuseScore reported the same error as Sibelius, but was more forgiving. I now know how to get a both ways repeat into Sibelius 2018.4 by the back door using XML. It's entirely possible that I've simply not followed all the advice correctly to do it from Sibelius itself, because the answer in XML is to create a repeat barline at the very end of measure n and then right at the beginning of measure n+1 to create a forward repeat barline. Which tallies with all the advice.

All the best

John
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby JohnDefoe » Mon May 14, 2018 10:35 am

OK - so Sibelius isn't entirely intuitive.

I now know how to create a both ends and starts repeat in 2018.4. The trick is to start with a single barline selected, choose backwards repeat from the dropdown list and *then* forwards repeat from the list. It does *not* work if you do the forwards repeat first! If you do, it puts the backwards repeat at the end of the bar.

But this exercise has helped in defining an extra algorithm for my XML conversion from Lime.

Cheers

John
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby MikeLyons » Mon May 14, 2018 12:52 pm

Up to a point, I have to disagree. I think your mistakes are largely down to user error. Sibelius is quite happy to put both barlines in the same place, providing that you deselect the barline after inserting the forward facing repeat. My workflow is as follows:

1. press [esc] twice
2. rt-click in an epty space
3. choose barlines-->Start repeat
4. click the barline where you want it to go.
5. Press escape or otherwise deselect the barline.
repeat steps 2 - 5.

This works for me every single time.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 8.5, Windows 10, 8MB RAM, 7TB 7200RPM Storage, Note Performer 2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby JohnDefoe » Fri May 18, 2018 8:33 am

Thanks, Mike.
Yes, you're right of course. Being a newbie to Sibelius I was unaware of the options that are presented when you right click in an empty space between systems. And yes, it works in 2018.4. Also, I've now found that if I
a) Select the barline, then choose forward repeat from the ribbon
b) deselect the barline
c) choose backwards repeat from the ribbon
d) click the barline
it also works. What I was doing wrong was keeping the barline selected and choosing backwards repeat.
Sorry to have jammed up this thread - at least I've now got my Lime XML correction app to deal with this as well!

Cheers
John
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Re: barline that both ends repeat and starts repeat?

Postby MikeLyons » Fri May 18, 2018 3:44 pm

We're all here to learn, John.

I learned something from your issue as well - that sib does not put the repeat barline in the right place if you leave the barline selected. I wonder if this is related to another problem where Sibelius wasn't putting Rehearsal marks and double barlines in the right places when they were being copied?

Keep asking questions!
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 8.5, Windows 10, 8MB RAM, 7TB 7200RPM Storage, Note Performer 2, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.
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