Triplet/tremolo

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mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:59 pm

Hi there!
I wonder if it's possible to do a figure like that in Sibelius and how.
I've tried but no luck.
Image

Thanks in advance!

Re: Triplet/tremolo

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MikeLyons
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:47 am

I thought you might be able to use a crotchet triplet with a 3:4 ratio, but the third crotchet won't tremolando (see image). You'll have to try to fake it.
Attachments
tremolando triplet.png
tremolando triplet.png (37.01 KiB) Viewed 288 times
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2020.1, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.1, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:45 pm

Thanks for your answer.
I had already that kind of result. For some reason Sibelius refuses to put a tremolo between the two last notes of the triplet.
I can't find a way to fake it, though. :?

MikeLyons
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:23 pm

I did some asking around and a friend came up with a kind of solution.:

Make a triplet crotchet in voice 1 (start it off with rests)
Make a triplet crotchet in voice 2 (ditto)
Put in the d and f in voice 1
Put in the f and a in voice 2
Select the d and press 2 then [enter] on the numpad layout 3
Select the voice 2 f and press 2 then the [enter] key on the numpad layout 3
Hide the voice 2 d
Hide the voice 1 f and a
Change stem directions as necessary

It won't play back, but it will look ok on the page.

This was my result.
Attachments
multyi trems faked.png
multyi trems faked.png (59.91 KiB) Viewed 265 times
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2020.1, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.1, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:31 pm

Wow!! Thanks a lot MikeLyons! Nice work around.
I don't care about the playback, since the score is for printing only.
Thanks! :wink:

MikeLyons
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by MikeLyons » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:06 am

Can I just ask - what does this notation indicate?
Last edited by MikeLyons on Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2020.1, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.1, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:17 pm

MikeLyons wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:06 am
Can I just ask - what does thition indicate?
Very nice that you asked!
It is a piano piece with orchestra. My wife is carrying out the project of digitizing the score in Sibelius (she is the pianist, I'm cellist :wink: )
I've looked at the manuscript and this is what is written:

Image

So, now the question is, how should this passage be played it.
My wife believes it should be like this:
Image

On the other hand, I believe it should be: (the writing is not really accurate, but you get the point, the tremolo change should be just before the third beat, between A and G. Easy to say though!)
Image

So, what do you think?
EDIT: Whatever it is, I think the composer was not clear, in fact, I believe is wrong written.

mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:52 pm

Well, well, well... Seems that nobody want to risk an idea about how to play this passage. :wink:
OK, it's not that important after all.

MikeLyons
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:48 am

mosaiques wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:52 pm
Well, well, well... Seems that nobody want to risk an idea about how to play this passage. :wink:
OK, it's not that important after all.
I don't think it's that. People are busy. For me, this is the middle of band contest season! When we have a contest I have rehearsals every night of the week!

Also, this is NOT an official Sibelius forum and there are no Avid/Sibelius people on here AFAIK.

I think you can only judge what is right by playing it and listening - which sounds best? which is more idiomatic. As your wife is a pianist, I'd probably take her opinion first. not that I've anything against cellists, but this is a piano part. Another point to consider is the period and the context of the music. Is this 18th C/19th C/20th C/21st C?
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2020.1, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.1, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

andyg
Posts: 1411
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:55 pm

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by andyg » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:54 am

Yes, there are only about three or four people answering queries on here these days, and we're all busy in our own ways! For me, it's two concerts to rehearse and a bunch of youngsters to get through their exams. So, for instant responses - don't hold hold your breath! :D

FWIW, I'd also go with what your wife has suggested. I think your idea goes slightly against the composer's. Don't we all love it when a composer puts something down on paper that is unconventional, obscure (or maybe just plain wrong!) that makes complete sense to him/her, but results in pure guesswork for the rest of us! Yes, the only way is to try it out and see what sounds best.

mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:58 pm

I thank you all for the answers.
And I would like to point out a few things:
I am first cello in an orchestra (I don't want to say which one because I would like some privacy), I've my stuff and I am busy too, as everybody else. Between the post asking about how to play the specific passage (02/01/20) and my last post (02/05/20) it's been a few days, so I'm not asking for an inmediate answer, and I believe that if I didn't write any post asking (it's not a complain) for an answer, I would never get any... Then, immediately I got two... And both sayig that they are too busy to answer, go figure. :roll:
Saying that this is not an official Sibelius forum is absolutely irrelevant. I asked only how to write an specific passage which I'm very grateful to MikeLions for the suggestion and how you (this community) think that specific passage should be played. What is his forum for if it's not to answer that kind of questions?
Finally, it's never been a competition about me and my wife. It's nice to see that two persons agree with one of the suggestions, that makes it easier to choose.
Again I thank you both for the time an answer.
Greetings.

MikeLyons
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:20 pm
Sibelius Version: Ult. 2019.9/7.51/6.2
Operating System: Windows

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by MikeLyons » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:29 pm

The only reason we mention that this is not the official sib forum is that you will get more rapid answers (probably) and possibly more erudite and complete answers from people whose knowledge and skills in both music and sibelius are far greater than ours. I am also on the official forum and the FB groups and all sorts of other things.

I wasn't complaining about your posts, just trying to point you in the direction of the more popular fora where you might get a faster answer (hours or minutes instead of days),

I'm a tuba/euphonium player. I've played at all levels for over 50 years. My partner is an amater organist. I started serious composition and arranging when I had o teach A Level, when composition became part of the syllabus. I was one of the first teachers in my school to use IT for actual teaching (in those days all you got was three voices and the only available output sounded like a sick bumble bee inside a tin can!) Sibelius was my hobby. However, I'm an inveterate manual reader. The original Sib manual was a really easy read. It was thoughtfully written and had an easy-going style that I liked. The latest version (press F1) is, perhaps, less easy but it is still a worthwhile thing to read. It's searchable and you can keep it open in the background. I'd also reccommend working through the example projects that come with the program - they explain a lot of the basics. I know it may seem a big ask for an occasional user, but it will pay dividends.
Sib 6.2, 7.5 and 2020.1, Windows 10, 32GB RAM, 8TB 7200RPM Storage, 2TB SSD, Note Performer 3.1, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Harmony Assistant and some others.

mosaiques
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 3:02 am

Re: Triplet/tremolo

Post by mosaiques » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:34 am

MikeLyons wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:29 pm
The original Sib manual was a really easy read. It was thoughtfully written and had an easy-going style that I liked. The latest version (press F1) is, perhaps, less easy but it is still a worthwhile thing to read. It's searchable and you can keep it open in the background. I'd also reccommend working through the example projects that come with the program - they explain a lot of the basics. I know it may seem a big ask for an occasional user, but it will pay dividends.
Thanks for you time and answer.
I always do a search in the Sibelius manual or the forum to solve an issue. Since this example was something that Sibelius (Finale and Dorico neither) couldn't do by its own, it had to be done as a workaround. You even had to do some asking (which I thank a lot) before arriving with that kind of solution, so, reading the whole manual or keeping it open in the background, I'm sure it helps, but it wouldn't solve this particular problem. I had no choice but to ask people who had more experience than me using the program... I think that is the main reason why this forum exists.
Anyway, I don't want to bother you with this issue anymore, it's solved and you have contributed much more than I would have expected. I thank you for that.

Cheers.

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